sleeping mat recommendations

[Miranda]

Hello!

I am getting reacquainted with my love of bushwalking, but need to upgrade some of my equipment to make it a bit more comfortable. (I've sworn to spend the money necessary to avoid any more sleepless freezing nights in the bush).

I'm looking for a recommendation for sleeping mats to use here in Tassie. I'm a (very) cold sleeper, but not very tall or strong, often walk solo and want to minimise weight as much as possible (as does everyone I suppose!)

From searching on the net and this site, exped down mats seem to be recommended. Can anyone tell me if they are the only one of their kind? Any alternatives suggested? If they are the go, suggested cheap dealers? What about pillows?

Thanks for your help, and apologies if this topic has been covered ad nauseam elsewhere.

[Liamy77]

another member came up with this link....
http://www.kookabay.com/
I dont have either but would love to get my hands one...

[Drifting]

I have a downmat 9- that thing is a bit heavy, but it's like sleeping on a heating mat. I ordered mine from Moontrail, overseas. They are around 900g from memory, but worth it.

Other members have Downmat 7's (or is it 6?), and that new green Thermorest thingie that weighs like 400g but costs sometihng horrendous..

There's also the Ethertherm Mat from Pacifci Outdoors- you can get them online from Australia for around $100. They look pretty interesting.

Carry a bit more in your pad, and you can get away with a bit less in your sleeping bag, or so I'm told.

[north-north-west]

As for pillows, just use your down jacket. Lovely and comfy.

[walkinTas]

Suppose it would be if you're poncing around the bush in a down jacket. Very uncomfortable sleeping on a wet polar fleece.

[north-north-west]

You don't ponce around the bush in it. You keep it in your pack to wear around the camp in the evening, and then use it as a pillow.
It's called multi-tasking.

[Franco]

The Exped 7 (7cm) and 9 (9cm thick) are definitely warm. The new ones have a built in pump so they are easier/faster to set up.
Another solution could be the Thermarest ProLite Plus W. That is 168cm long and a bit warmer than the man's version. About 700g.(4cm thick)
A popular choice in the US is to use two mats. Typically an inflatable and an Evazote type mat (like the blue one or a thinner version) .
Could be an inflatable and the Thermarest Z Lite .
Some combine the blue mat/Z Lite with the Neo Air .
Franco

[nickL]

hey franco

do you know anything about kookabay mats - i am making some enquiries with bender but was hoping to get some details from someone who has used or seen the mats

nick

[Liamy77]

i have sent them an email asking them if they can make the large rectangular mat with about 500g of down in it.... will let you know what they say..

[Tony]

Mont make a nice sleeping mat, rated at -10C, 680g, I have seen the mat at the Mont shop in Canberra and it looks nice and well made and only $179 RRP. They also make a nice Primaloft filled pillow $50.

http://www.mont.com.au/index/catalog/product/454545

[Franco]

Hi Nicki
No personal experience with the Kookabay but Bender does get good reviews on his products at BPL.
Here is one thread :
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... d_id=27714
Franco

[Son of a Beach]

Mont make a nice sleeping mat, rated at -10C, 680g, I have seen the mat at the Mont shop in Canberra and it looks nice and well made and only $179 RRP. They also make a nice Primaloft filled pillow $50.

http://www.mont.com.au/index/catalog/product/454545

Looks nice, Tony. I guess "primaloft" is a synthetic filling inside the chambers (like a down substitute)? Do you know anyone who's used on of these?

I'm still using a 15-20 year old thermarest, and will probably replace it some time over the next couple of years, so am vaguely starting to pay attention more to the various options.

[Liamy77]

shame mont dont bother saying how long the two sizes are....

[Franco]

Interesting that Mont calls its line Warmlite.
Warmlite is the brand name used by Stephenson's , probably the first to use down insulation inside a mat.

http://warmlite.com/sleeping-bags/bag-data
Franco
(in case you don't know, the family were/are nudists, hence some of the "strange" pics, nothing to do with cheap publicity

[Miranda]

Thanks Tony, Franco and Drifting (and others) - I will check out those suggestions and post anything useful I find out.

Cheers
Miranda

[flatfoot]

Hello!
From searching on the net and this site, exped down mats seem to be recommended. Can anyone tell me if they are the only one of their kind? Any alternatives suggested? If they are the go, suggested cheap dealers? What about pillows?

I tried my new exped downmat on the weekend and I'm very happy with it. You turn the bag inside out and stuff clothing in it for a pillow. You then use the ties on the bag to fasten the "pillow" to the end of the exped.

My recommendation is that you hunt for youtube & blog reviews / demos of the various products you are considering. These really help when trying to choose.

[sailfish]

Hi,

I wouldn't go near the Neo Air for Tas. I don't have one but have done a little reading now. It sounds like it is just an air mat with an inbuilt space blanket and will only go to about zero. It has no real insulation at all so I think your better off with a 4 season mat like the prolite 4 or plus or similar for Tas. Sleeping bags will not insulate against the ground as they squash flat under you. The Neo looks like a light 3 season option but seems overpriced to me as you can get the same temperature performance from any air mat simply by putting a space blanket under it and you should be carying an emergency one anyway. I generally use a heavier duty space blanket as a protective ground sheet under my tent floor.


Regards,
Ken

[Liamy77]

those Stephenson down airmat triple bags look great!!! i have been shown a bag i prefer to the Exped down mat 7 / waterbloc 800 combo.... you realise i have to mentally redraw my wishlist now Franco!
just out of interest has anyone tried treating a sleeping bag with DWR??? - not sure if it would screw up the down or not....?

[Franco]

Sailfish
You are correct in saying that the Neo Air can only go to about 0, that is what it is designed to do.
Some have reported temperatures well under that but of course some also walk around in shorts at minus 5...
The ones that do use the Neo Air below zero, as mentioned above, (and are not abnormal), do so using a solid foam mat on top of it.
The reason they do that is so that they have a backup in case of failure (Expeds and ProLites can and do fail)
The Neo Air packs down to a size not much bigger than a can.
With a blue mat ($10) about 200g cut down to 170cm or so, the M Neo is 370g , so you have a combined weight under 600g for an R value somewhere around 4.5/5 , about the same as the 680g ProLite Plus W but with more "cushion".
Personally, I don't like having stuff outside my pack (apart from my small shelter) so the Z Lite/Blue Mat+ Neo is not for me.
So I mentioned that choice because not everyone is like me...
Franco
BTW, an emergency blanket under a mat does not work like the reflective coating inside the Neo. That is because there is air space between the coated sections and the body.
Pic of the Neo Air and Prolite Plus W (really a Prolite 4 W)

[Liamy77]

Hmmm which of my harem of mats will i use today eh?
(-a fellow gear freak)

[Son of a Beach]

The ones that do use the Neo Air below zero, as mentioned above, (and are not abnormal), do so using a solid foam mat on top of it.
The reason they do that is so that they have a backup in case of failure (Expeds and ProLites can and do fail)
The Neo Air packs down to a size not much bigger than a can.
With a blue mat ($10) about 200g cut down to 170cm or so, the M Neo is 370g , so you have a combined weight under 600g for an R value somewhere around 4.5/5 , about the same as the 680g ProLite Plus W but with more "cushion".
Personally, I don't like having stuff outside my pack (apart from my small shelter) so the Z Lite/Blue Mat+ Neo is not for me.
So I mentioned that choice because not everyone is like me...

I need to buy a new mat some time (my current one must be nearly 20 years old, and still strong, but I'm starting to want more comfort and less weight). Combining a Neo Air and a blue mat is one of the options I've been considering.

I wouldn't have the blue mat rolled up outside my pack, but would have it open-rolled inside the pack (ie, like a pack liner, with all the other items inside it). So that would overcome the problem of having things outside my pack (which I also try to avoid), but of course would still take up a bit of space inside the pack. I do like the idea of going back to a blue mat (plus something else) for the reliability factor. I've never suffered a puncture in 20 years of using my current thermarest, but if it did happen, then I don't think I'd sleep a wink afterwards.

I'm curious though abou having the blue mat on TOP of the Neo Air. For a restless sleeper like, me I would not expect it to stay on top for long. Has anyone tried this, and does it come off? I think the pair would stay together better with the blue mat underneath, but then would this offer as much insulation? Probably not, I expect.

[Franco]

Gear freak ?
It is all in the name of science.
Or maybe they are toys...(no children, no vices, spare time...)

I hNeo Air Foam Mat combo
I hope that this link works...
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... gination=1
Have a look at the chart from Richard Nisley on post 16 (the green and yellow one)
He gives the thermal value of a 4.8 mat against the 2.5 Neo Air by it self (first two columns) than of the Neo Air with foam mats of different thickness.
Those are Evazote mats like the ones from Gossamer Gear.
Someone posted a local supplier for similar mats here (this forum)
The R value of the Blue Mat and Evazote of the same thickness is about the same.
Foam mat under or over has been discussed at lenghth there (BPL) but I cannot remember the outcome.
You can search the Forums without being a member (I think...)
Franco




Franco

[Liamy77]

Thats what i do too Nik... i figure if its outside your pack it is a "temporary possession".
I am using a cheapo blue mat -dual density, 2cm thick with a very basic 3/4 cheapo DMH self-inflatable hikelight mat... inside a packliner is great for boyancy and gear protection....
I have only gone down to -2 on it so far though.... it was good but i need a nice shiny new bag for Tassie....

mat slippage: I sewed two elastic loops and stick em around the mats top and bottom and theyhold in place well.

[Son of a Beach]

Thats what i do too Nik... i figure if its outside your pack it is a "temporary possession".
I am using a cheapo blue mat -dual density, 2cm thick with a very basic 3/4 cheapo DMH self-inflatable hikelight mat... inside a packliner is great for boyancy and gear protection....
I have only gone down to -2 on it so far though.... it was good but i need a nice shiny new bag for Tassie....

mat slippage: I sewed two elastic loops and stick em around the mats top and bottom and theyhold in place well.

ah interesting - thanks for this. Did you start using the loops because you found the were necessary, or did you pre-empt a potential but unconfirmed problem?

[Liamy77]

originally thought i'd use em after loungin on em infront of the telly... also srparyed the inflatable mat with a rubber waterproof spray and it hasn't slipped yet..

[johnw]

I'm curious though abou having the blue mat on TOP of the Neo Air. For a restless sleeper like, me I would not expect it to stay on top for long. Has anyone tried this, and does it come off? I think the pair would stay together better with the blue mat underneath, but then would this offer as much insulation? Probably not, I expect.

I think you'd fall off. But in lieu of the blue mat solution my experience of using very thin foam under sleeping mats:
http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1912&hilit=+foam&p=16074#p16057
http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1544&hilit=+foam#p13880

Also has anyone tried that thin non-slip matting you can get in Big W, $2 shops etc? Might kill 2 birds with one stone if insulating properties are any good and it's not too heavy?

[Franco]

"Also has anyone tried that thin non-slip matting you can get in Big W, $2 shops etc? Might kill 2 birds with one stone if insulating properties are any good and it's not too heavy?'

Corvus has one like that. He bought that to stop sliding. I doubt that there is much insulation at all.
Maybe just gluing a few strips of that onto the blue mat might work...

BTW, the two mat system has been used for years in the US at least, so it obviously works for some and that is why Richard Nisley did that chart I posted about above.
Richard works for a lab that does temperature test . So working out R values, CLO and all of that is his job. (and he has the gear to do it with)
Franco
This is that chart :


Note the difference between side sleeping and back sleeping
The Comfort and Extreme temps are in Fahrenheit...

Last edited by Franco on Sat 14 Aug, 2010 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Liamy77]

Also has anyone tried that thin non-slip matting you can get in Big W, $2 shops etc? Might kill 2 birds with one stone if insulating properties are any good and it's not too heavy?

that would only really solve the slip issue not the warmth or extra comfort... Seriously try the silicon rubber spray - it can't fall off or move off/away through the night seems to reduce a bit of material noise too.

[Nuts]

Hi Nik, I'd suggest something thinner than the old blue mat style thickness and then doubling up.
We used the thin 2mm? black stuff under and over with a group and no real problem down -7odd.
Exped sell one 2mX1m with a nylon backing which can be cut/sewn to size though I believe it is the same stuff used by upholsterers and in soundproofing?
We had one under one over, the top one definitely adds more warmth. With the two they each roll to the size of a small pole bag so easy to store inside or wrapped around the poles or wrapped around the gear inside yer pack. Didnt notice any real probs with slipping, the Neo top seems 'sticky'. Hope this helps.

[Son of a Beach]

Thanks Nuts. It's certainly food for thought. I would imagine that in summer if sure the weather ain't gonna be too cold, then the Neo on it's own might be enough, and make for a very light weight summer mat. Then in winter, or if camping in cold conditions (eg, alpine) take the extra rubber mat.