Nature vandals

[Pteropus]

A sad story. Today I came across two girls carving their names into a tree in Lamington NP. Carvings in trees is a pet hate of mine but I never thought I would see people in the act. They looked startled at getting caught out when I came along but all I could do was to tell them that they shouldn’t be doing that. Their response was a very aggressive and defiant “WHY!”, not even asked like a question, more a statement...they were more amused at my answer that it was a world heritage listed park and that everything in it is protected. I couldn’t do much more, though in hindsight I should have whipped out my camera and taken a pick of them committing the act and taken the pic to the rangers or police. Soon after I headed back up the track and came across a bag of rubbish that hadn’t been there earlier...only two other walkers had passed by, an older couple who I doubt were drinking cans of V, so I suppose the girls were responsible. Not long after I came across them again and they were bailed up by a small whip snake and asked me if it would bite them...i replied something along the lines of it most likely would bite them for what they had done to the tree....(and I was hopeful...)...to be honest, I felt there was not much I could do but tell them they were doing something wrong, which I am sure they knew. Sometimes I wish I had a uniform and some authority....

What I don’t understand is why would someone who bothers driving to an isolated area, walk several km into the bush, to vandalise nature?? I don’t expect anyone to be able to answer that coz to me it doesn’t make sense. I have seen a number of other posts about rubbish and people walking dogs in National Parks and we all wonder why someone would do these things. Why go into nature if you are not going to respect nature? And in the case of these girls carving into a tree, they had brought along a knife to do it with, and they didn’t look like regular bushwalking types who carry a pocket knife for emergencies...

It was on one of the well graded/maintained tracks in Lamington and of course there is a greater abundance of vandalism/rubbish closer to the main entry areas of the park as people who may be inclined to do harm to nature will most likely not venture too far...however this occurred several km from the touristy walks. Despite believing that anyone who wants to see such places should have access, its a shame that some people really don’t deserve to see the places, and clearly don’t appreciate the experience....

Anyhow, sorry about sharing a negative expereince, just venting to the converted as the whole encounter ruined what was a great day in the rainforest.

[Cocksy_86]

I'm glad you caught them in the act. When I was 14 I went to Fraser Island and carved my initals in a sand dune that overlooked the beach. I got caught by some people driving by and they asked "Why?" with a disgusted look on their face. And from then on I realised that trashing/ruining/destroying/vandalising something as beautiful and precious as nature, is not admired by anyone in their right mind.

I'm not justifying what they did. It's just O'Reilly's Plateau Resort brings people that are...city bound. People that have grown up never having gone to a country town, let alone the bush. Holidays consist of shopping in Paris, Hong Kong, or New York, with a stop over at Tokyo or Singapore. They've never been to the bush. They've never had the experience I had when I was 14. So probably still in the mindset that degrading something for everyone to see is cool.

It really sh!ts me after spending three days out in Lamington NP, studying the bushtucker, finding the history spots of the first pioneers, experiencing what Bernard O'Reilly has talked about, studying the 'island' of abundant ecology of unbelievable fauna and flora, to finish that last 5km where all the tracks come together, and find a muslie wrapper loosely thrown on the ground, along with a dirty tissue and a cigarette butt. In the 20 times I've been there it has been that way everytime.

I don't know the answer. Population control? Permiting and Policing? Stronger Punishment for Traffic Offenders? Santa Clause? Most people confuse me, that's why I go bushwalking.

[Phil Box]

Being on outdoor ed camps an awful lot I see all manner of things done by the youth of today. Vandalism in the bush is one of my pet hates as well. Rubbish particularly distresses me because no sooner does it leave the hand of the perpetrator than it is assumed that it is someone elses responsibility and the perp then denies all responsibility for ever having had the offending itme in the first place. I love it when I catch them red handed. I also make rubbish a group responsibility. I loathe those cellophane straw wrappers on popper juice cartons.

Don't get me started on kids scratching their names and other assorted graffiti on rocks. Man do I give them a beasting for that, why would they do that. It's an offence that deserves getting their parents to come out to the bush and take them home and that has certainly been done.

Holing people accountable for their every action is the correct action. Taking a pic is definitely the way to go. Handing it in to the ranger is also the way to go. Following up with the ranger is also recommended as they are way overworked and often let these things slip into the too hard basket. Knowing that people are watching and will say something will give most people pause to think before they act.

[Lindsay]

Pity they weren't bailed up by a Brown snake or a Taipan....

[Cocksy_86]

What would have been better would be one of those talking trees from Lord of the Rings pick 'em up and give them a talking to.

[Pteropus]

Yeah, i kinda hoped the tree might just decide to drop a limb on them
Like the old adage says, its often a small minority that ruin things for the majority, and so perhaps permitting is probably more likely going to be needed for entry to Queensland national parks if this type of person is to be discouraged. In the case of Lamington, both Green Mountain and Binna Burra sections are free entry, so people don’t need to even consider if they are willing to put a value on their decision to visit the park or not. However i'm sure there would always be a selfish few who would pay the price to enter, then leave rubbish, damage vegetation etc...

[Cocksy_86]

I think permitting keeps the honest people out and probably wouldn't stop vandals.

We could do what some of the surfing gangs in Sydney do where they trash the beach to stop tourists from overcrowding breaks. Although, not suggesting littering to stop people from littering, maybe take turns walking around the car park in a mankini.

[Prospero]

Although its a negative subject it is good to know there are others who feel the same way about preserving thr remaining fragments of beauty. I can sympathise with Pteropus and how even small examples of insensitivity can ruin ones time in the bush.

Recently while wandering Hidden Valley the Budawangs I discovered some one had decided to re-name the cave traditionally known as 'dark brothers cave' by scratching "MAGGOT CAVE" in 7 inch letters allong the back wall with a white stone. Apart from disgust I was baffled by the effort that this would have taken. The size and thickness of the letters would someone hours to do scratching away with pieces of stone... for no reason! I couldnt stand the words there glaring at me. One of the reasons I go bush is to escape what I call data-smog: useless and intrusive verbal information that we are smothered with in the city. So with bits of charcoal and darker rock I did my best to eradicate the visual pollution. To disfigure the vandalism took some time and the will still be obvious for many years. Im not sure Id like to find the perpetrator in the act so far away from the civilisation and its violence restraining influence. I just silently curse them, hope they had a rotten time and will never return.
Sadly this is kind of thing is bound to become more and more frequent. Its simple population dynamics. In every population there will be a small percentage of morons that will tend to commit these crimes. As a population grows so does the absolute number of these cretins. Unfortunatly the size of the wildernss does not similarly grow. the solution? more wilderness AND less people?

I should say that the caves' name is irrelavant to me. The traditional name is proabably disapproved of these days.

[Macca81]

while i agree 110% with all of the above opinions on vandalising nature, i do have to say that i find the names and the occasional story that is carved into so many huts around the place fascinating. if its on a rock or tree or whatever else however, i have no time for it...

[Cocksy_86]

i agree Macca in the sense it's a fuzzy line between culture and vandalism. maybe we should hold accountable aboriginal people for vandalising cave walls with drawings of hands, emus and stories. they even went around chipping things into rocks around water sources. pffft...dodgy

so interesting. two different people do the same thing yet with different motive. one a vandal. one an artist.

[Phil Box]

Oooh now that you mention it macca, I do find the graffiti in the toilets at the Pines campground at Arapilies some of the best I have ever seen. True literary classics. I've also got pics of the ancient European graffiti in one of the caves at the base of Crookneck in the Glasshouse Mountains.

[Lindsay]

Interesting concept...when does graffiti become old enough to become history?

[juju]

"Yeah only a real burke would carve their name on a tree"

Burke.jpeg (24.47 KiB) Viewed 12753 times

[tasadam]

Yeah only a real burke would carve their name on a tree

And history (if not common sense as well) shows that it's all in vain....

[juju]

Whilst I love the kindred spirit closeness I feel with the human beings from our past when seeing 'vandalism' like the following photo displays on the walls of Carey's Cave at Wee Jasper, is our enjoyment of history just sick egotism and vanity?

Attachments

[north-north-west]

The cave thing really pisses me off, especially when it's on formations. Thousands and thousands of years to grow, and someone reduces them to a blackboard for their vanity.

[Moondog55]

Not everybody sees it that way, and times and mores change.

Graffiti and wall writing has a long history, it is a way of saying "I was born, I came here, I did exist"

I used to do it, I grew up and don't do it any longer, but old graffiti makes me wonder who Sgt Betty was ( Ropers Hut Vic high Plains) was she happy? how did she live and die?/

Fo waz 'ere goes back to Egyptian times and probably much earlier, maybe cave art isn't religious at all, just graffiti with pretensions?

I can tolerate the cutting into trees, the trees have to be there for it to happen and usually does very little harm, it is the piles of human faeces and used tissue paper in the center of walking tracks that makes me angry

[walkinTas]

Graffiti and wall writing has a long history, it is a way of saying "I was born, I came here, I did exist"

Carving your name into a man made structure like a hut would seem a small offense in comparison with damaging a world heritage site or vandalising a natural structure that is thousands of years old.

Really though, table tops and wall are not designed for people to leave comments; that's why huts have log books.

Selfish bushwalkers not only ruin the wilderness experience for all of us, there is also the risk they will steal that experience from the generations yet to come.

[SteveJ]

A few years back I did a job for NSW National Parks documenting and taking moulds of the convict graffiti on the Great North Road. The rate of deterioration meant that the historically significant 'graffiti ‘ was going to disappear within the foreseeable future as a result of the impacts of 'nature'. As a Conservator of Cultural Materials I found it interesting to find the line between the conservation of cultural materials and environment. Conservation the graffiti meant removing micro flora/vegetation, redirecting moisture flows, restricting access etc actions that would have been against the principles of the environmental conservation.... In the end, the convict graffiti was documented as well as it could be with archaeological documentation, archival photography and facsimiles (reproductions). I believe the graffiti was then left to be reclaimed by time. It was an interesting job and raised many of the questions being asked here.

Steve

[Pteropus]

I have often wondered about what point does a rock carving/tree carving go from vandalism to historical artefact. Since the values we place on anything is inherently arbitrary I personally think it is really up to the individual to decide. Of course many carvings or marks are historical and sometimes culturally significant. Aboriginal rock paintings and carvings are important links to indigenous cultures, and in many cases they are the only link. Convict carvings such as the ones mentioned by SteveJ above are also culturally significant links with the formation of Australia as a nation. You can find such artefacts in so many places if you know where to look. I know of carvings on rocks in many national parks, from visitors or workers, scouts etc, with dates ranging from the 1800’s to the modern day. I guess some people feel they want to leave their mark and whether it is right or wrong, bad or not so bad, is something that everyone could philosophise about until the cows come home.

Having said all that though, I personally don’t understand the need to create a mark and think that carving a mark in modern times is disrespectful of the environment, disrespectful the people who use and care about the environment and want to see a natural system, and when done in a National Park it is against the law. And I think most people would agree. WalkinTas makes a good point about using official log books/visitors books...after all, people often read through those to see who came before them. However, I doubt someone who feels the need to carve up a tree or rock face doesn't really want to leave a message or log of the great time they had....