Brands, Shops, Marketing, Pricing, Sales, etc [split]

[walkinTas]

When did you last check out the prices in Kathmandu??

Don't think I have ever shopped at Kathmandu. My wife has a wind jacket that she bought at Kathmandu in Launceston (I think).

Kathmandu is not a brand. They are a retail outlet like Anaconda, Chicken Feed, Harvey Norman or Woolworths. If the product is overpriced then don't complain, just shop elsewhere. If I don't like the price of Woolworths' apples then I don't buy them. Full stop! Its not a comment on whether Woolworths is good, bad or indifferent. I have purchased products from Harvey Norman and returned them because they didn't measure up, and I have certain rights under Australian law that allow me to do so. Again, its not a comment on whether Harvey Norman is good, bad or indifferent - more a comment on the brand I bought. I have bought some really good stuff very cheaply at Chickenfeed. Again, that in itself is not a comment on whether Chickenfeed is good, bad or indifferent. I bought a $5 headlight at Anaconda and IMO (yep this is opinion ) it wasn't worth five cents, but that isn't grounds to make any conclusive statements about Anaconda.

For everyone of the retailers I just mentioned I could probably find you a dozen people who have had bad experiences and don't like them, and probably and equal number who swear they are great places to shop.

As far as I can make out from reading this thread, Kathmandu apparently sell very inferior products at hugely inflated prices. So answer me one thing, why do you all shop there?

[corvus]

I had vague recollections of the Fairydown Snowcave...
History tells us it was a three hoop tunnel tent, similar to the Olympus (if maybe less easy on the eye )?

Picture 4.png

$51.50
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Camping ... 199724.htm

Gees that tent has not been pitched for a long time mine is a nice green and purple and it is a 3 hoop with a ridge pole making it a free standing tent unlike the Olympus
corvus

Last edited by corvus on Thu 20 Jan, 2011 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[doogs]

Because I want to go to Katmandu but can't afford it. ( Best excuse I could come up with, I should know better). But Chickenfeed on the other hand, same owner but a far superior products);)

[tasadam]

But you can't really use it as a free standing can you? You still need to peg the ends down, minimum...
Notwithstanding, the Hallmark was a great tent. I agree that one hasn't been pitched in a long time. He should have left it up in the sun for a day to flatten some of the crinkles.
Oh, forgot... New Zealand. No sun!

[Nuts]

Hallmark? Not fairydown?

Really, ridge pole? Maybe people didnt grasp what they were trying to achieve even back then?
How did it attatch to the hoops?


There are some interesting tents in the 'used' section of that site. This Northstar owner either got ripped, is trying to rip or just had/has not much idea "Only used once cost over $850 a month ago !!!!!!!!":

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Camping ... 311339.htm

[walkinTas]

do i have to list my gripes about a certain company each time I wish to call it crap.... or can i just list it once and there after refer to it as crap...

Ok, I see what your getting at with some of the earlier comments but Really, who bases a purchase decision on 'XYZ is crap'

Forum members have a go at macpac and people come to their defense
Forum members have a go at kathmandu and NO ONE comes to their defense......thats says it all lol!

My personal take is this - If one or three (or even more) people on a forum post and just say XYZ is crap, then that isn't helpful or useful at all. I can't really use that information (because it isn't informative). And its not really fair to XYZ either to just bad-mouth them for no apparent reason.

If just one person has a bad experience and tells their story, the details might well be informative. But we've all had at least one bad experience. If five or ten people post on a forum giving their story of a bad experience, then I can look more carefully at what they are saying. If their overall experience with XYZ is bad, then I'm a lot more interested. If the follow up service was also bad then I'm concerned. If more and more people paint the same picture and their reasons are solid and valid, then I'd be silly not to listen. This is helpful information, and I think its the sort of thing most people want to see on a forum.

Equally true about good experiences and stories about good products and service.

This is why I say I think you should give a reason rather than just bad-mouth the retailer or the brand or simply post an emotional gripe. Also, the unreasoned gripe/bad-mouthing is more likely to cause an argument. It becomes a he said she said thing. People can't argue with your experience, because its real, it happened, but they can and will argue with your emotional interpretation.

It is the subsequent argument and accompanying ill feeling that leads to moderation, because by then things are becoming unfriendly. So giving facts and sticking with facts is safe and informative.

...anyway, as I said, that's my take on it.

Don't think I have ever shopped at Kathmandu. My wife has a wind jacket that she bought at Kathmandu in Launceston (I think).

Apparently I have shopped at Kathmandu (my wife knows everything). I bought a reasonable pair of gore-tex walking shoes about three years ago, paid under $100.

[Taurë-rana]

The specials that are reasonably priced at Kathmandu. I've bought a few bits of clothing - thermal long johns, a jumper which I haven't stopped wearing since I got it because it is soooo comfortable, a wind proof fleece vest and some shorts that I live in. I've been happy with the quality and price of all of them. I can't imagine buying sleeping bags, tents or down jackets there, first because they are always overpriced and secondly because of concerns about the quality.

[Liamy77]

a store is only as good as the aggregation of its prices,service, and product..... so if you have insulting prices + questionable quality+ great? service you still get a crap shop.... but no one is holding a gun demanding you buy there (i hope.... but if they continue to get this reputation they may have to!!)

[walkinTas]

no one is holding a gun demanding you buy there (i hope.... but if they continue to get this reputation they may have to!!)

Not even close! They seem to be doing better than ever.

The New Zealand-based Kathmandu's share price rocketed more than 17 per cent after announcing sales were expected to increase up to 10.3 per cent for the six months to December 31.

[etrangere]

Kathmandu is not a brand. They are a retail outlet like Anaconda, Chicken Feed, Harvey Norman or Woolworths.

Kathmandu is a brand AND retail outlet. They sell only their own brand of gear, just as the Macpac stores sell Macpac gear. Yes Anaconda sell what I believe is their own brand Denali, but at least you have the choice of also buying other brands such as Trangia, MSR etc. Likewise Paddy Pallin, Main Peak, Mountain designs all have their own brand but also sell other manufacturers. The benefit of this is lets say I want to buy a MSR Dragonfly stove I can at least compare prices between Paddy Pallin, Main Peak, Anaconda, Mountain Designs etc and even browse online to get an idea of prices/value, and they have to compete with each other for my dollar.

From past experience I feel Kathmandu overinflate their prices and sell very average product....and thats being generous. Macpac I feel are going down the same path of sales/discounting as Kathmandu which worries me. But in saying that the few items I have bought recently from them still appear to be of high quality which is a bonus. I dont have any control over the quality of the product but I do have control over what I spend, ie I wait for sales to get what I figure is not really a bargain but just a fair price.

I rarely buy from kathmandu and if i do it would be for an item where the quality of the item were not important for its intended purpose. What REALLY bothers me is i feel for anyone who may lack the experience or knowledge to be able to ascertain good vs poor quality outdoor gear. Not always but generally quality and price go hand. These are the people who during kathmandus usual sales are going to be under the false impression of getting a high quality item at a bargain price. Its these people that kathmandu preys upon, most people on this forum are lucky enough to be able to make a more informed and knowlegable decision in their purchases of outdoor gear, many others are not so lucky.

[Penguin]

Have we worked out a tent for Tassie Walking yet?

[etrangere]

Lol, not yet but at least we know what brand not to buy!

[corvus]

Have we worked out a tent for Tassie Walking yet?

I believe that even my K Mart A frame hike tent with Fly properly pitched would handle most conditions if you do not agree look up the photographs of early days in Tasmania plenty of A Frames in those shots just a tad heavy for us now
corvus.

[corvus]

Getting back to ridiculous Kathmandu prices I was in Allgoods today and looked at a Head Torch for a reasonable $9.95 complete with batteries good value with a logo on strap and nicely packaged, same item in Kathmandu (with Kathmandu logo on the strap) $39.95 I landed mine no logo for $5.95 on line.
$9.95 in a shop with staff to pay I can live with but $39.95 when staff get the same pay (or should do ) all over the country creates a doubt in my psyche so go figure
By the way the current Chickenfeed owner sold Kathmandu a couple of years ago.
corvus

[etrangere]

Well said Corvus....even if discounted 50% at one of their sales you're still being shafted.

[blacksheep]

..... and you get the extra benefit of not supporting Macpac

that's a bit nasty...don't expect a christmas card from my family this year.

The only reason i said it was because i didnt get one this year!

you should have let us know your address...how are we supposed to know where to post it? See what happens when a little thing like the exchanging of christmas cards is over-looked- heated customer discussion and angst ridden business owners all lose out...



(oh, and I suppose i forgot to add this last time , so here is 2 for this post )

[stepbystep]

By the way the current Chickenfeed owner sold Kathmandu a couple of years ago.
corvus

.....and frankly the more Ms Cameron can make from the great unwashed by selling us all the crap she sells the better. At least she(unlike most) actually makes good use of her profits - far more than most know I will add! If she didn't sell it someone else would, and I bet they wouldn't do a tenth of what JC does for our society.

[etrangere]

By the way the current Chickenfeed owner sold Kathmandu a couple of years ago.
corvus

.....and frankly the more Ms Cameron can make from the great unwashed by selling us all the crap she sells the better. At least she(unlike most) actually makes good use of her profits - far more than most know I will add! If she didn't sell it someone else would, and I bet they wouldn't do a tenth of what JC does for our society.

I'm sorry but I would have to disagree with you on that point. No matter how much good she does with her profits it doesnt justify selling mediocre goods with the overpriced RRP/misleading discount tactic. I would have far more respect if they sold quality products at a fair price, or even 10% higher if it was clear that the extra profits were going to some worthy charity. Everyone wins.

And the fact that if she didnt do it someone else would hardly excuses it. Imagine if a bribe taking policeman took that view, or a drug dealer perhaps?

[stepbystep]

By the way the current Chickenfeed owner sold Kathmandu a couple of years ago.
corvus

.....and frankly the more Ms Cameron can make from the great unwashed by selling us all the crap she sells the better. At least she(unlike most) actually makes good use of her profits - far more than most know I will add! If she didn't sell it someone else would, and I bet they wouldn't do a tenth of what JC does for our society.

I'm sorry but I would have to disagree with you on that point. No matter how much good she does with her profits it doesnt justify selling mediocre goods with the overpriced RRP/misleading discount tactic. I would have far more respect if they sold quality products at a fair price, or even 10% higher if it was clear that the extra profits were going to some worthy charity. Everyone wins.

And the fact that if she didnt do it someone else would hardly excuses it. Imagine if a bribe taking policeman took that view, or a drug dealer perhaps?

Meh, don't be sorry, don't care too much if you don't agree with me - you do realise she doesn't own Kathmandu anymore? Also people buy a lot of stuff including milk/laundry pwder etc etc at Chickenfeed much cheaper than at Woolies/Coles, also employs Tasmanians and is funding free desexing of cats/dogs, hundheds of thousands to devil research, Brightside farm(google them), Tas Land Conservency and many many more, so yeah think what you will....just trying to be positive!

And did I mention I am quite happy with my Scarp1 for Tassie conditions

[Nuts]

More Kathmandu info here: search.php?keywords=Kathmandu&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

And did I mention I am quite happy with my Scarp1 for Tassie conditions

Great!

...Meh! Your probably about to try to sell it... snigger...

[walkinTas]

No matter how much good she does with her profits it doesnt justify selling mediocre goods with the overpriced RRP/misleading discount tactic.

You do need to be a bit careful here and hopefully you are being a bit careful. There are laws in Australia that clearly deal with retail pricing and advertising practices. You can read them on the ACCC site. If you wish to go as far as accusing someone of having dodgy practices and misleading the public then you better have some facts and know the rules. And if you do have the fact then maybe ACCC would be interested.

Getting back to ridiculous Kathmandu prices I was in Allgoods today and looked at a Head Torch for a reasonable $9.95 complete with batteries good value with a logo on strap and nicely packaged, same item in Kathmandu (with Kathmandu logo on the strap) $39.95

Actually Kathmandu sell a range of headlamps. The top price is about $130.00. Price is not the only criteria people use when making a purchase - otherwise why have a range?

My experience with crapmandu took a down turn when i bought a cookset at 50% off.....a few months later i saw the EXACT same cookset (ie from the same factory in china i would suspect) cheaper at full RRP at another camping store.

Take a look at this example.

1.

MSR_stowaway_MED.jpg (9.2 KiB) Viewed 7588 times

2.

ONCO.jpg (6.5 KiB) Viewed 7588 times

1. MSR 1.1L Stowaway Pot at Summit Gear = $45.95.
   
2. MSR 1.1L Stowaway Pot at Backcountry = $19.95. $26.00 difference.

Well guess what. Not all stowaway pots were made by MSR, some were re-badged Asian products. I have one and can prove it. These guys made mine. (by the way I have no idea who made the two pots in this example - it is just showing price differences)

Summit Gear customers could complain they were "ripped off", but no one is forcing them to buy. It's a free choice. MSR customers who bought a re-branded pot could complain they were mislead, but were they, re-branding is common practice; just look at Holden. That's the meaning of the Latin phrase 'Caveat emptor'.

PS: I bought my MSR pot and stove at the Backpacker's Barn. I've been very happy with it and never considered the price or the re-branding a problem (can't remember what I paid). I needed a pot and stove and a local purchase was very convenient. I'm certainly not going to start jumping up and down and making spurious claims about the owners based on this sort of evidence. Edit: being extra careful I should say that I bought the pot at the same time as I bought the MSR stove. I can't recall if it was ever claimed that the pot was actually and MSR pot but I always thought of it as an MSR Stowaway.

[Franco]

one thing I would like to know is : what Kathmandu shelter is a copy of the Macpac Olympus?
What other Kathmandu tents are copies of the Macpac range?
Franco

[blacksheep]

one thing I would like to know is : what Kathmandu shelter is a copy of the Macpac Olympus?
What other Kathmandu tents are copies of the Macpac range?
Franco

None, as you know...(I did just see the latest WILD mag though, and I'm not too thrilled about another brands liberties with that design however)

K'du are not a copy of macpac, far from it, perfectly differnt in so many ways. As for comments about knock offs, well, I know they have many of their own designers, several of which (past and present) I know and like and are quite good at their jobs. But designers are one part of the company, and don't control the whole process. Product development /manufacturing/ specification and quality control processes can live up to a designers vision or let it down, so how a company positions itself and the systems and measures they have to meet that expectation can make a huge difference to the outcome, not the designer.
Good design may often cost the same as poor design, but good specs/materials/construction and manufacturing almost certainly cannot. So often the pursuit of lower cost prices hurts more than poor design.

[Nuts]

Was the Olympus a copy of the snowcave? what's the story with the ridgepole?

[Funky_Bunch]

must remember not to say Macpac on the forum to much anymore, damn i said Macpac again, doh and another. it leads to pages of debate (tounge in cheek)




..... Macpac

[doogs]

I was thinking of starting up the topic "Sleeping bags for Tassie walking" to seee what happened

[blacksheep]

Was the Olympus a copy of the snowcave? what's the story with the ridgepole?

I don't know - it was well before my time, but I do see catalogues going back more than 20 years with the olympus.

[Franco]

Hard to know who did what first but for example I was pointing out recently at BPL that the Brooks Range Rocket tent is almost identical to a design I suggested a few years ago to a manufacturer that already used the same design at the rear of one of their tents, I just added the extended brow pole and trekking poles to it...( "my version" was never made)
There are a couple of tents, at least, that are closer to the Olympus design. Namely the Kelty Windfoil 3 and the TNF Westwind, particularly the firs version.
However I do not know who got there first , after all they could all have been inspired by the covered wagons seen darting across the screen in Western movies :


The guy that set this wagon up deserves a smack on his head for the limp canvass..
Franco

[Liamy77]

HEY RETAILERS..... IN CASE YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN:

WE WANT PREMIUM PRODUCTS AT CHEAP PRICES NOT VICE VERSA!!

[walkinTas]

must remember not to say Macpac ...it leads to pages of debate (tounge in cheek)

:-J

A Canonical Smiley for tongue-in-cheek.