Another Sleeping Bag Question

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Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby cams » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 1:39 pm

So I'm after a lightweight sleeping bag for my girlfriend for use around SE Qld mainly. So something that keeps her warm down to around 0 without too much trouble. I use a MB UL DH#3 and have been happy with it so far down to temps in the low single figures with only thermals. So I figured I'd get her the same thing. Turns out she sleeps alot colder than me. She only used it one night and was getting uncomfortably cold at around 6 degrees with quite a few layers on underneath. To me this was too far off the desired temp rating needed to supplement it with warmer layers underneath so I've since sold it on.

I guess my main query is whether the rating that she is likely to need compared to the manufacturers quoted spec is likely to be linear. So for example if the DH#3 is rated to -1 (285g 800 fill) but she got cold at say 7, would that logically mean that she would need a -8 rated bag to get an effective rating of around 0? This is probably hard to tell and varies person to person but what have other cold sleepers found?
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby Dale » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 2:36 pm

Hi Cams

I also sold my MB bag due to the Temp rating not working for me.

I don't know if there is a linear relationship between temp ratings. However I'd start at looking at whether the bag is accurately rated in the first place. I've read a lot of comments from MB owners on the lack of accuracy in temp ratings vs say WM or Feathered Friends bag owners etc...

You could try a WM Ultralite, it's 450g of fill and also comes in a small version, depending on how tall your girlfriend is.

Good luck !
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby cams » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 2:56 pm

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I have read similar things about the MB bags, but I was happy with mine and as far as fill weight goes they seem comparable if not on the overfilled side for the rating compared to others. On the top of my list so far is the WM Ultralite and the MB #1. The MB is cheaper, has more fill and weighs less as far as fill/shell ratio goes.
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby mountainhigh » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 3:45 pm

I found the information on the Marmot website valuable for comparison between male and female comfort ranges for sleeping bags http://marmot.com/product/content/en-tested

... of course this proved to be expensive reading because I then found myself on Larry Adler's site buying a Helium EQ long bag as part of their half price special :roll:
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby Lizzy » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 4:42 pm

Hey Cams- let us know what you decide to go with as I am having a similar problem- I love the MB bag and great for warmer temps but I have been doing alot more cooler weather walks and so need a warmer bag. Would have given it to my hubby as he probably would have been fine in it (sleeps alot warmer even though he is a QLD'er :wink: ) but I had already bought him a new bag. I am tossing up between Montbell #1, Marmot Helium, SD Nitro 15, WM Ultralite....... or something else???? The Helium looks nice but wish the womens version was a bit longer- the Montbell sizing suited me well and think I read the mens Marmot is quite roomy which means it may be too big for me & therefore not as warm..... decisions decisions.....
goodluck
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby rwfox » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 5:23 pm

I highly recommend the marmot Helium (-9c) we have both the standard and female bags.
Marmot has a full range in this series, Atom, Hydrogen, Helium and Lithium. The Helium and Lithium are also available with a water repellent outer shell.
We also own Atoms (+9?) and Lithium (-19c). But the Helium is the best all rounder very good for Tassie.
We bought all the bags from the US. Wait for the sales and you can get the helium with postage for under $350. The latest Heliums have a full length Zip, so have more control. :D
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby Dale » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 5:49 pm

This might give you some more ideas:

http://www.tenpoundbackpack.com/gear-li ... ping-bags/
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby Jellybean » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 6:14 pm

Lizzy wrote:Hey Cams- let us know what you decide to go with as I am having a similar problem- I love the MB bag and great for warmer temps but I have been doing alot more cooler weather walks and so need a warmer bag. Would have given it to my hubby as he probably would have been fine in it (sleeps alot warmer even though he is a QLD'er :wink: ) but I had already bought him a new bag. I am tossing up between Montbell #1, Marmot Helium, SD Nitro 15, WM Ultralite....... or something else???? The Helium looks nice but wish the womens version was a bit longer- the Montbell sizing suited me well and think I read the mens Marmot is quite roomy which means it may be too big for me & therefore not as warm..... decisions decisions.....
goodluck
Lizzy


Hi Lizzy,

I echo the comments here about the Marmot Helium being a good bag (I have the Marmot Helium EQ Long - good having the water resistant shell, which is signified by the "EQ"), with one caveat. I find it a little too wide (compared to my WM Summerlite - I understand the WM bags are a little narrower fitting) and find that this can create cold spots. I find the Summerlite fit a much better fit for me (I'm tall and slim). I guess my advice is try a few different bags if you're thinking of going for a different brand, to make sure that it suits your build. Good luck!

Cheers,

JB
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby Jellybean » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 6:15 pm

Lizzy wrote:Hey Cams- let us know what you decide to go with as I am having a similar problem- I love the MB bag and great for warmer temps but I have been doing alot more cooler weather walks and so need a warmer bag. Would have given it to my hubby as he probably would have been fine in it (sleeps alot warmer even though he is a QLD'er :wink: ) but I had already bought him a new bag. I am tossing up between Montbell #1, Marmot Helium, SD Nitro 15, WM Ultralite....... or something else???? The Helium looks nice but wish the womens version was a bit longer- the Montbell sizing suited me well and think I read the mens Marmot is quite roomy which means it may be too big for me & therefore not as warm..... decisions decisions.....
goodluck
Lizzy


Hi Lizzy,

I echo the comments here about the Marmot Helium being a good bag (I have the Marmot Helium EQ Long - good having the water resistant shell, which is signified by the "EQ"), with one caveat. I find it a little too wide (compared to my WM Summerlite - I understand the WM bags are a little narrower fitting) and find that this can create cold spots. I find the Summerlite fit a much better fit for me (I'm tall and slim). I guess my advice is try a few different bags if you're thinking of going for a different brand, to make sure that it suits your build. Good luck!

Cheers,

JB
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby Nuts » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 6:26 pm

I'd echo those echoed comments :) . Ive slept in the womens helium (ok...no jokes), i'm around 5'10 and not 'thin', it Was a tad tight though. The mens is a good fit. Marmot bags are underrated once compared (in hand) with the other popular bags. Some are generously roomy but as these models are 'winter' bags (here) you can fill the space with your spare clothes (ie down jacket, perhaps worn).

There are lighter bags around but once you handle the helium range you do wonder at the expense of the weight savings. They are very well made. Of the Marmot range though, the Pinnacle series would be my fave, not much heavier, much warmer and water resistant.

Thats a good list Dale, someone has put some effort in there.
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby Jellybean » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 6:50 pm

Ah yes, good point Nuts ... the women's version (women's-specific cut/fit and insulation) may well be a better for women! :D (Alas, I had to go for the beefy bloke version - which is no doubt broad across the shoulders - because the women's version (5'6") was way too short for me).

(N.B. I'm a bit afraid to delete my previous echoed comment in case one deletion deletes both of them and ruins your joke!)
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby Nuts » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 7:07 pm

Mahh, i'm full of them, delete away if you want! (I dont think it will delete both?)


I'm almost certain the Heliums we have are womens long (5'10), looking on their site though I can see them, i'll check tomorrow (just outa interest, might be a good 'used' bargain out there somewhere?)..
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Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby Bluegum Mic » Thu 30 Jun, 2011 8:16 pm

Nuts wrote:Mahh, i'm full of them, delete away if you want! (I dont think it will delete both?)


I'm almost certain the Heliums we have are womens long (5'10), looking on their site though I can see them, i'll check tomorrow (just outa interest, might be a good 'used' bargain out there somewhere?)..

Oooooh. Does that mean your putting one on your eBay sale. Might shuffle off to have a look see :-)
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby cams » Fri 01 Jul, 2011 9:32 am

Thanks all. I did have a look at the Marmot's. Not sure why I had pushed them asside a bit. I think maybe the price for weight? But with all the good recommendations I'll have to take another look. As mentioned above, they do have a good temp rating system. Very comprehensive.
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Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby Bluegum Mic » Fri 01 Jul, 2011 11:35 am

cams wrote:Thanks all. I did have a look at the Marmot's. Not sure why I had pushed them asside a bit. I think maybe the price for weight? But with all the good recommendations I'll have to take another look. As mentioned above, they do have a good temp rating system. Very comprehensive.


I had a look and Larry Adler has got them going cheap at the moment ie price the same as campsaver (without having to pay os shipping). I'm going to pop down to the local store on the weekend to take a look.

http://www.larryadler.com/Outdoor_Store ... ng_Bag.cfm
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby cams » Fri 01 Jul, 2011 11:48 am

Never heard of that store. Thanks.

edit: It would be nice if the specs actually matched up. Campsaver says the Wms Helium weighs 940g with 538g fill. Larry Adler says it weighs 822g. Marmot website says it weighs 1162g with 730g fill. :shock:

edit2: Seems the 940g weight comes from an old version. If you just google "marmot womens helium" it gives you an official Marmot page with specs giving 940g total 538g fill with a rating of -9.4 C. However, if you navigate through Marmot's website it sends you to a different page quoting 1162g total 730g fill for a rating of -9 C. That's a hell of a lot more down for a slightly warmer rated bag. Both supposedly using 850+ fill power. So *&%$#! confusing. I think this amount of fill is an attempt by Marmot to make a true -9 C bag for a woman. Whereas what I'm probably looking for is a "Mens" -9 C rating or a true womens -1 C rating so probably around 500 - 600g fill.

Old one: http://marmot.com/products/womens_helium
New one: http://marmot.com/products/wms_helium?p=117,71
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby baronessbunyip » Fri 01 Jul, 2011 12:22 pm

I recently bought a women's pinnacle from campsaver and the specs were slightly different to what the marmot site says, but they matched what was on the campsaver site. It led me to believe that maybe marmot have recently increased the fill weight of some of their bags so that it brings the EN rating up to marmot's own rating, if that makes sense, although the "updated" specs on their website do not necessarily apply to the bags stocked by some retailers.

The label on my bag gives an EN rating of minus 5.9 (comfort level for a woman) and a fill weight of 630gm and it is supposed to weigh 1120gm (although I have not confirmed the actual weight). But if you go to the marmot website it says the fill weight for the same bag is 750gm, the overall weight is 1247gm and it says "updated EN testing", which perhaps means the higher fill weight gives it a higher EN rating????.

Anyway, I am very happy with my bag so far although I have not tested it properly because I am still in the process of getting enough gear to be able to do overnight trips. I have used it below freezing in my backyard (in a double wall tent, on a foam mat - dont know what the exact temp was though) and have been plenty warm enough. Like others have said, it does have a bit of a roomy cut but I prefer this because I feel trapped in bags cut too narrow, and I can easily wear my down jacket in it or push it down the bottom around my feet without any down being compressed. Generally, it lofts up really well and compresses fairly easily into its stuff sack.

I chose the pinnacle because it was slightly cheaper than the helium and it has a draft collar around the shoulders, which I find useful, although it does weigh more. I just wanted a good all-round bag for Tassie and it seems like it will be good for this.

Hope this helps!
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Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby Bluegum Mic » Fri 01 Jul, 2011 12:22 pm

Funny. I just went to the website and worked out the same things and was about to post the URL in here for the newer lighter one. But yes marmot list the weight the same as campsaver. Not sure where Larry Adler took their weights from. Still 900g for a -9 bag is still pretty darn good. It looks fairly compact too.
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby cams » Fri 01 Jul, 2011 12:25 pm

Bluegum Mic wrote:Funny. I just went to the website and worked out the same things and was about to post the URL in here for the newer lighter one. But yes marmot list the weight the same as campsaver. Not sure where Larry Adler took their weights from. Still 900g for a -9 bag is still pretty darn good. It looks fairly compact too.


Well I'd be a little skeptical of their ratings for their older models if they've just added 200g of fill to get the same ratings as the old one for the new model. From Larry Adler's website the part number is definitely the old one #2088.
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby mountainhigh » Fri 01 Jul, 2011 12:27 pm

cams wrote:...It would be nice if the specs actually matched up....


With the women's Helium bags:
* Current Spring 2011 #21020 is heavier (1162/730g) with a significantly higher EN 13537 rating (-7.2/-14.3/-34.4)
* Fall 2010 model #2088 is 940/538g (-1.7/-7.8/-25.9)

With frequent changes to specifications and fill volumes, I wouldn't rely on vendor website listings being accurate for their physical stock and would much prefer to check the model and specs attached to the actual bag before purchase.
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby baronessbunyip » Fri 01 Jul, 2011 12:29 pm

yeah I just saw cams had edited his post and worked it out himself!

basically, I think the older ones are good down to the EN rating, not marmot's rating - but it might be hard to determine what that is until you see the label on the bag, so many different specs floating around! As I said, the older pinnacle is EN rated to minus 5.9 for a woman's comfort level.
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby cams » Sun 24 Jul, 2011 9:54 am

Well I just pulled the trigger on a Sierra Designs Nitro 15 regular. 960grams total, 565grams of 800 fill. I ordered it from the dreaded campsaver. Paid $325AUD shipped via UPS 3 day service. It would have been nice to get the womens version Spark but she's a bit too tall for it. The BPL review of the Nitro says it is a bit shorter than the specs say so that will hopefully end up perfectly. The stretch system should hopefully account for any excess girth in the mens version too.

My reasons for getting this bag were mainly based around price. It wasn't on any of Campsavers exclusion lists for either export or the 20% off sale and was cheaper to start with than the DH#1. At this stage I'd much rather save the money than get free stuff from Moontrail. And I was willing to take the 50g weight penalty over a WM or Mont-Bell bag. So now I'll wait and see if Campsaver stuff's up, and to see if going for the cheaper option means that the quality suffers at all.

If the'd had the Mountain Hardware womens phantom 15 I probably would have gone for that because it was a big lighter. They had the mens regular but it is massively long for a regular.
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Re: Another Sleeping Bag Question

Postby cams » Thu 04 Aug, 2011 10:05 am

Just to add some more information to this if anyone is searching. The bag arrived within a week. The design is interesting. The side zipper is very short even compared to the MB bags which means you do have to slide into it a bit. The zip also seems to close the bag together very well. Only a small slit is visible from the outside. It runs snag free thanks to a fairly stiff piece of cord sewn in behind the zip. Although this combined with the massive draft tube on the inside make it a bit tricky to pull from the inside. It also has a small foot box vent zip along the bottom. This zip seems a bit stiff at first. Hopefully it will free up a bit. Might get some zipper lube onto it.

Sizing wise, it is a bit bigger than I was hoping. I actually just fit inside the regular (I'm 185cm). My GF will have a bit of spare length then which isn't the best but better than the other way round. She will also have a bit of extra girth but the stretch system seems pretty effective and combined with the close fitting hood hopefully this won't effect warmth too much.

The stitching did look not quite perfect in a couple of places but overall seems well made. The material is very nice and has that matte sort of finish while still being slippery and soft. The stuff sack it comes with is very generous and you can easily compress it to nearly half the height once it is inside. Weight is pretty much dead on. Without the stuff sack and with the sleeping mat straps attached it is 2g less than the manufacturers quoted weight of 963g. Stuff sack adds 20g.

So now we just have to see how warm it is.
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