Down fill compromises

[Stibb]

I'm compiling a wish-list of gear for future outdoor adventure and got a couple of questions about down in general.
By comparing specs from various sleeping bags it seems obvious that a 850+ fill would be "better" (warmer/weight although more expensive) than a 700-800 fill. Now, if I had the money (which I don't) I would just buy the bag with the best possible down, that is 850+, and think I made the best decision. But is it the "best"? What are the compromises? Do they last as long as "lesser" down? Do they need extra care? Or is it simply better in all regards (except price of course ). I suspect there is a trade off as with every thing else...

Also, I like the idea of lighter bag combined with jacket/pants sleeping system that can be used around camp as well. As I know down and water doesn't mix would it be really stupid to go for a down bag + down jacket/pants (and even mat)? Would it be more sensible to combine a down bag with synthetic jacket/pants. Or am I too paranoid? I'm really for the light/ultra light approach but I know Tasmania well enough not to go overboard so again, compromises. What do you think?

[HitchHiking]

I'm compiling a wish-list of gear for future outdoor adventure and got a couple of questions about down in general.
By comparing specs from various sleeping bags it seems obvious that a 850+ fill would be "better" (warmer/weight although more expensive) than a 700-800 fill. Now, if I had the money (which I don't) I would just buy the bag with the best possible down, that is 850+, and think I made the best decision. But is it the "best"? What are the compromises? Do they last as long as "lesser" down? Do they need extra care? Or is it simply better in all regards (except price of course ). I suspect there is a trade off as with every thing else...

Also, I like the idea of lighter bag combined with jacket/pants sleeping system that can be used around camp as well. As I know down and water doesn't mix would it be really stupid to go for a down bag + down jacket/pants (and even mat)? Would it be more sensible to combine a down bag with synthetic jacket/pants. Or am I too paranoid? I'm really for the light/ultra light approach but I know Tasmania well enough not to go overboard so again, compromises. What do you think?

The numbers of 850 etc. refers to the volume in cubic inches that one ounce of the stuff will fill.- That equals, like you say a good warmth to weight ratio. The higher the number or fill power,the lighter the bag will be. I have heard that the higher the fill power, will last just as well and better than lesser down will with proper care(regular cleans etc) as the natural down clusters are extremely resilient. . I have worked with fills from 750 and to what sells as 900 and I couldn't honestly tell any differences. It was on different days so it may be like the pepsi/coke taste test. Must be done side by side.

Hope that helps.

In regards to the sleep system there a few here who have used it with success from memory.

[Stibb]

the volume in cubic inches that one ounce of the stuff will fill.

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense to me. The American way to calculate things always confuse me. Is it the same stuff but more fill/volume or is it different stuff with different density or what is it I thought it was different quality (ie different stuff) of down.

[HitchHiking]

Sorry for being unclear where I said stuff I was reffering to the down . 1 ounce of 850 fill power will loft to fill 850 inches cubed. 1 ounce of 750 fill power will loft to 750 inches cubed. All seepling bags will have a baffle volume ( only the manufacture will know what it is unless you get your tape measue and seam ripper out ) For example if you have an internal baffle volume of 850 inches cubed then one ounce of 850 Fill power will fill it(this does not include over stuffing) where as it will take a little more then one ounce of 750 fill power to fill the save volume(dont have my calculator) The later makes it slightly heavier.

[Stibb]

I understand stuff=down but I will probably come across as really stupid but that just made it half clear. So what you're saying is that it is different stuff (=down) as you say 750 vs 850 "fill power". What is fill power if it doesn't mean different type of down ie different quality?

[mountainhigh]

Marmot has some reading about down, loft ratings, different birds and bird maturity etc http://marmot.com/product/content/down

[Stibb]

Thanks, now it makes more sense. It is same same but different stuff So, has anyone experienced any real world difference when it come to care/longevity?

[HitchHiking]

Yep and the different percentages of down clusters to feathers.

[Tony]

Be aware there are two different main down standards, the European and the US (funny that) and they are different.

The European Standard, is EN13637, I am not sure what the US one is called but a 800 EN std down is better than 800 US std down.

This site has a lot of good information on down and sleeping bags.

Tony

[Franco]

Stibb
Maybe an easier way to look at this is to keep in mind that warmth/insulation is related to loft not weight, So since it takes less 850 rated down to fill the same space it takes 750 , the end result is that the 850 version will be lighter or warmer if at the same weight.


There is no "downside" that I know of , apart from cost, with the higher fill down.
Franco