Solo Winter Walking

[CasualNerd]

I haven't been walking in about 5 years but I have this whole month off and I might not get another chance to walk for another 12 months, so I'm looking for any cautions or advice on walking in Tassie over winter !

I've got a -15 rated sleeping bag, plenty of protective gear, I'm fit and done plenty of walking in the past. I've just never walked solo and never in minus conditions. I'm also planning to utilise huts to save me potential difficulties with a tent. I'm sure there are plenty of people who do this, so is there anything out of the ordinary I should consider ?

I was going to do a quick overnight to scott kilvert first to make sure I remember what I'm doing on an easy track, and then hoping to do Arm River > New pelion Hut > Ossa and back over three days hoping to climb ossa this time as last time the weather was awful.

[Joel]

I don't mean this in a bad way but my tip would be not to ask about it on an internet forum as people will get themselves all worked up about the dangers and weather or not you are an "experienced" walker, haha.

I would not reccomend doing it solo unless you have all 4 season gear including an alpine tent, sleeping mat(s), snow shoes, ice axe and crampons (for ossa possibly) and all winter gear and a fair amount of common sense.

Do not leave your tent behind and rely on huts. That will do you no good if you break your leg half way to a hut. Or if you get lost in white out conditions.
Don't underestimate Tassie weather. It can kill you if you get in over your head. It was dropping to -9.5 at 800m ASL last month. Add a bit of wind chill on top of that and you're in dangerous conditions if you get wet or lost or something.

Scott Kilvert hut is only an easy walk if conditions are good. It was really hard for a few weeks when we had that cold snap. You seriously needed crampons to get around.

If you haven't already, check out the link to the photos of cradle summit in the "overland track conditions" thread.

it's not like that any more but could be by the time you attempt ossa.

[corvus]

Really good advice Joel,
I totally agree with your comments.
c

[Nuts]

I agree with Corv

Not much this year yet but iv'e wandered around out there alone a fair bit. If no snow then the only thing reliably different (to summer) is that the days are shorter and generally colder.
With snow, especially when its deeper, i'm pretty cautious about peaks that i haven't been on before (ie in summer).. even ossa has a few traps if unfamiliar. Still... immensely rewarding if well prepared.

[JamesMc]

I'd suggest you go east. Maria Island, Tasman Pen, Freycinet....

As for walking without a tent and relying on huts. That's as bad as doing day walks without carrying a tent. I must confess to being guilty of both.

JamesMc

[pazzar]

What has been said is very true, the conditions can be dangerous. I would do some solo walking somewhere a little more stable to get used to the idea of being solo. North East springs to mind, as Freycinet, Maria etc are likely to be littered with people anyway. Don't be scared by the potential conditions though. If you keep a close eye on the conditions and pick your weather, there is no reason why you shouldn't attempt these walks, just be prepared for all outcomes. I was once warned about the dangers of solo walking, but I was given good advice and went out prepared, and I'm still walking, solo quite often too.

Definately carry a tent, regardless of the plan of using a hut. It is worth the extra kg's if you get caught out!

Cheers,

Jared

[CasualNerd]

Thanks guys, I have crampons (never used!), and my sleeping bag / thermarest are 4 season I think the sleeping bag is to minus 15. Hopefully I can borrow an ice axe or hire snow shoes.

The only reason I skipped the tent is because I don't have a good one, and don't thik it's something I'll be buying soon. I'll look at hiring or borrowing one asap. I'll also be taking an epirp (or whatever the new ones are) for ossa especially.

I've already done maria a few times, freycinet, tasman peninsula was the last walk I did. I'm pretty keen for a challenge this time

[olblackbilly]

better off selling your epirb and get yourself a decent tent, so you dont rely on taxpayer funded rescue helicopters

[Truckinstructor]

go for it CasualNerd - just use your gut feeling - you are your best guide. Always plenty of cityfolk happy to give their advice. I carry a sat phone and use a gps and compass. Snowshoes on Ebay from U$A - dont rent from a shop in Hobart as toooo expensive. ($140-00 AUD ex U$A)

[Azza]

Thanks guys, I have crampons (never used!), and my sleeping bag / thermarest are 4 season I think the sleeping bag is to minus 15. Hopefully I can borrow an ice axe or hire snow shoes.

Just on the ice axe and crampons, have you been trained in how to use them? Just having them doesn't automatically make it safer.

[CasualNerd]

The epirb is for when I break a leg or something, not because I'm getting cold :p

I haven't been trained to use ice axe and crampons to be honest I hadn't really considered the skills to use them. Now you've got me worried !

[doogs]

As long as you are sensible with your choice of where to go, walking in winter alone is fine, and the summit isnt everything. If you dont have any winter walking skills maybe try to avoid the snow. As Azza suggested the if you are walking alone you would want to be competent with an ice axe (self arrest, step cutting..) and with crampons (walking, front pointing..). These are things that need to be taught. It is very easy to trip yourself up with crampons on, fall head first down a hill, try to stop yourself with your axe, lacerate your face with it etc. Just saying

[weetbix456]

Now you've got me worried !

It is very easy to fall head first down a hill, lacerate your face with it etc.

poor guy..

[Joel]

Hey Truckinstructor, That's crap advice.

Setting off for Ossa in the middle of winter with no tent is fricking stupid and if you lived in the park for 6 winters like I have and seen some of the dumb stuff people do, I doubt you would reccomend setting off for a solo walk without one. I have lost all faith in the ability of people to get themselves/keep themselves out of trouble.

[Azza]

It is very easy to trip yourself up with crampons on, fall head first down a hill, try to stop yourself with your axe, lacerate your face with it etc. Just saying

Speaking from experience doogs?

Anyway chances are you'll be fine with Mt Ossa close proximity to new pelion hut etc.
Under the right conditions it can get quite icy on the side of Ossa, I've heard at least one horror story.

Last time I was out that way in the middle of winter I stepped on mud puddle that had frozen over on the surface..
I broke through down to my waist, by the time I washed myself off and got back to the hut I was damn cold.
I got in my sleeping bag and refused to move for the rest of the day.

If it was me out there solo I would be carrying my bivvy bag and a sleeping bag just for safety sake.
Australians for the most part are pretty clueless when it comes to potential dangers in the snow other than the obvious.
We just don't get exposed to those those dangers much here, I was up Mt King William a few weeks ago just after the big dump.
I was coming down the summit last afternoon on a warm winter day north facing 38 degree snow slope...
hmm... technically meets all the criteria for a good avalanche and a nice pile of boulders at the bottom to mash myself on.

Incidentally I was up there solo cross country skiing - so I guess I can't be too critical otherwise I might be calling the kettle black here.

[doogs]

It is very easy to trip yourself up with crampons on, fall head first down a hill, try to stop yourself with your axe, lacerate your face with it etc. Just saying

Speaking from experience doogs?

Yes
I was young and stuffing around on a small frozen waterfall half way up a mountain in the Cairngorms in Scotland on a -15 day. Luckily the previous day we been practising self arrest techniques on a snow slope, throwing ourselves head first and backwards downwards and then trying to stop ourselves!
It was close to the start of the day so had plenty of energy and thought I would front point up this 4 metre ice cascade and thunking my axe in (only had one tool). Unfortunately I was wearing a flexible pair of boots, good boots just flexible, and as I put pressure on the balls of my feet to move up the boots bent and with that the front points slipped out of the ice. Down went Doogs. I think my first thought should be obvious, my second was ice axe, I flung it out into the ice and snow, as I tried to get the adze until the meat of my shoulder I hit a bump (at speed) and the adze ended up smashing into my chin. I lifted myself back over the axe as I slid downwards and managed to stop. I sat up a bit dazed with a bit of blood around, an experienced member of the party patched me up, chastised me and told me to get on with the walk. Which I did sheepishly and nervously, lesson learnt.
I still have the scar to remind me not to be too cocky in remote areas.

[corvus]

Interesting feedback on this thread from some who have done lots and those who wish they had ,however I still agree with Joel he lives and works in the Mountains unlike some weekend warriors(like me)
and I believe that Caution should always be number one rather than "yes just do it" jmho

[CasualNerd]

Last time I was out that way in the middle of winter I stepped on mud puddle that had frozen over on the surface..
I broke through down to my waist, by the time I washed myself off and got back to the hut I was damn cold.

Last time we tried to do Ossa in the middle of winter it flooded so badly we were walkking up to our waists in water on some parts of the track. I never want to repeat that experience, and I believe if we'd waited at the hut another day we would have been trapped there till the water receeded. Has anyone else seen that area flooded ? I'd love to compare pics and see if it's more common than we thought.

All good advice thanks guys, I'm pretty determined to make this happen but only under the safest circumstances. Glad i asked and got some feedback

[corvus]

[/quote]
Last time we tried to do Ossa in the middle of winter it flooded so badly we were walkking up to our waists in water on some parts of the track. I never want to repeat that experience, and I believe if we'd waited at the hut another day we would have been trapped there till the water receeded. Has anyone else seen that area flooded ? I'd love to compare pics and see if it's more common than we thought.
All good advice thanks guys, I'm pretty determined to make this happen but only under the safest circumstances. Glad i asked and got some feedback :quote]

As hard as I try to remember the only place on the track where water could have been waist deep would have been on the Arm River Track close to Douglas Creek and in fact quite a few km to Ossa is this what you meant ??
c

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

better off selling your epirb and get yourself a decent tent, so you dont rely on taxpayer funded rescue helicopters

I know this is a contentious issue amongst people on this site so I'm going to tread lightly, but I think we need to be very careful making comments like this.

The only thing worse than unnecessary tax payer funded resuces would be someonone dying because of comments like this (ie being afraid to carry/use the epirb).

As someone who once worked in aviation rescue, I would very strongly encourage casualnerd to take an epirb (and definitely also a tent!).

[JamesMc]

And the rescue of someone with an EPIRB would cost a small fraction of the cost of a search for someone without an EPIRB.

JamesMc

[bluewombat]

Ahh, Doogs
your story of self inflicted pain takes me back 30 years, learning to self arrest is a joy. Under the watchful eyes of the NZ Alpine Guides I remember sliding down a few gentle icy faces, arresting and thinking this is okay. First time I had to do it on something steeper, I catch the old crampon, do a head over heels, think "get that axe in" and drove the pick straight into my thigh. My helpful mates laughed a lot. 'Just because you own the tool doesnt mean you can use it safely', is doubly true when you get three dimensionally challenged. For what it is worth I think solo walking in snowy conditions in the mountains has some fairly significant risks beyond that of solo walking at other times and previous dumb luck can be confused with experience.
bw

[CasualNerd]

As hard as I try to remember the only place on the track where water could have been waist deep would have been on the Arm River Track close to Douglas Creek and in fact quite a few km to Ossa is this what you meant ??
c

The Arm river track, yep, flooded everywhere ! I've honestly never seen so much floodwater anywhere else in my life. I might upload some pics because I'd like to see a comparison when it was dry !

[Joel]

Thank's for the vote of confidence corvus!

I reckon everyone should push themselves to their limits and even try to do things beyond their comfort levels.
But you should try to have a safety backup if things go pear shaped.
I would not admit on this forum to some of the things I have done in the past because they seem so silly and dangerous now. It really hit home to me on October 27th last year. I fell down a 3.5 meter cliff and broke four bones in my leg. If I had have been by myself walking to Ossa one month earlier with no tent I could have died.

Push yourself and do whatever you want to. Don't worry about what other people think is dangerous, but you are an idiot if you don't mitigate the risks as much as possible.

It's a bad way to go getting rescued in tassie mt's. If you are going to get yourself killed, at least do it on a proper mountain ie. K2.

[CasualNerd]

I reckon everyone should push themselves to their limits and even try to do things beyond their comfort levels.

That pretty much sums up my attitude right now. I keep saying "going to" and never doing it.

I'll do whatever I can to prepare and I'm not willing to take stupid risks but I'm determined to get out and do something challenging.

[Joel]

I just re-read the thread and I want to clarify my position a bit. Setting off without a tent to do ossa in winter is not stupid at all if you are confident and know the weather really well and are fit and all that. But if it's your first time for a while and you are unsure enough to ask about it then you should absolutely take a tent.

A bit off topic. Do you guys know a guy from Hobart did Frenchmans in a day but FREE SOLO CLIMBED (no ropes) up the face on a grade 17 rock climb. I mean he ran in climbed up the face, SCARY!!, then topped out , went down the bushwalkers route and then RAN all the way out. In a day.

I can't believe more people don't know about that. Incredibaly athletic and really ballsy.

[junifer]

Nice to walk during winter

[ILUVSWTAS]

I just re-read the thread and I want to clarify my position a bit. Setting off without a tent to do ossa in winter is not stupid at all if you are confident and know the weather really well and are fit and all that. But if it's your first time for a while and you are unsure enough to ask about it then you should absolutely take a tent.

A bit off topic. Do you guys know a guy from Hobart did Frenchmans in a day but FREE SOLO CLIMBED (no ropes) up the face on a grade 17 rock climb. I mean he ran in climbed up the face, SCARY!!, then topped out , went down the bushwalkers route and then RAN all the way out. In a day.

I can't believe more people don't know about that. Incredibaly athletic and really ballsy.

Yes My Bro in law has done the walk in a day, but not the climb. However some guys on here know the guy your referring to. My Bro in law used to run the Western Arthurs as training in a weekend. He's done Fedder in a day, the picton circuit in a day, and ran from Stanley to Hobart in 4 days.

[Nuts]

Thanks guys, I have crampons (never used!), and my sleeping bag / thermarest are 4 season I think the sleeping bag is to minus 15. Hopefully I can borrow an ice axe or hire snow shoes.

The only reason I skipped the tent is because I don't have a good one, and don't thik it's something I'll be buying soon. I'll look at hiring or borrowing one asap. I'll also be taking an epirp (or whatever the new ones are) for ossa especially.

I've already done maria a few times, freycinet, tasman peninsula was the last walk I did. I'm pretty keen for a challenge this time

In any given month chances are you wont encounter a lot of snow still lying and especially at the very time you have planned. Its just as likely going to be a fairly straight forward climb, probably just colder and wetter underfoot than in summer. The ice, if just that, can be a bit tricky but simple ice cleats are enough in patchy snow.

If, however, its looking like those photos referenced... and you arrive there with fresh snow and noone elses lead to follow, you'd then be wise to be thinking of turning around. Forget Crampons and the Ice axe, you dont want to be learning up there solo (as others have mentioned). If you get to the stage where you are beyond the cleats... turn back! The simple answer, based on the little info here...

And... just take some form of carried shelter. Take enough weather protection and warm 'stuff' with you, dont leave it back at the hut... even without heavy snow you need a level of caution above what you would likely get away with in mid summer. Its not K2 but it might just as well be for some.

Hope this helps... if not for you then for others (of similar experience) that may happen upon this topic, something to adapt to any tassie peak under winter snow.

PS.. yer, and here.. as a final thought.. where (imo) it should be... one last morsel (for you) ... take an emergency beacon

[Jellybean]

I reckon everyone should push themselves to their limits and even try to do things beyond their comfort levels.
But you should try to have a safety backup if things go pear shaped.

I would not admit on this forum to some of the things I have done in the past because they seem so silly and dangerous now. It really hit home to me on October 27th last year. I fell down a 3.5 meter cliff and broke four bones in my leg. If I had have been by myself walking to Ossa one month earlier with no tent I could have died.

I like the way you think. Some people never get to know what they are capable of (or experience the satisfaction of extending their limits) because they always stay within their comfort zone but, having said that, there are others who take foolish risks and put themselves and others at risk. (I hate to say it, but 17 - 24 year old males are over-represented in this regard, although there are exceptions). Being prepared to extend yourself and test your limits but, at the same time being aware of and prepared for all possible consequences (mitigate the risks as much as possible) is good advice in my book!

[Footnote: And no matter how sensible we might be, I think all of us can think of things we've done in the past that were just plain foolhardy in hindsight. I can think of one incident in particular that I look back now on and ask myself "What were you thinking?". Many people survive those experiences and learn from them, others are not so lucky and have their lives permanently changed or ended as a result. @#%* does happen, frequently through accidents that could have been avoided].