Bushwalk Australia

Nuts wrote:The cornstarch bags can't go in pump out, flush or septic toilets?

That plastic shopping bag alternative can't

Hi all, I've been researching this issue over the past couple of days because my partner and I are planning to camp in the Hartz Mountains NP here in Tassie over New Years, and I'm concerned enough about impacting via camping without designated areas, let alone leaving waste... I found this Australian site: https://www.ezygonow.com.au

Good on you Lones. There have been a number of discussions on here regarding different disposal methods from waterproof to degradable bags and hard containers.

Did you search for info from or ask this of the park service?, would be interested in the advice they are able to give.

For base camp or car camping, I can recommend Jimmy's Thunderbox: http://www.2daloo.com/thunderbox.html

Moondog, 2daloo also sell "In-viro Degradable Liner Bags" :

are designed for landfill, compost and
soil deposit - They will ultimately biodegrade when buried with toilet waste, only carbon dioxide
water and biomass will remain, leaving non-toxic by-products.

Cut the bottom out of an In-viro bag and place it inside your toilet with about
7cm or 3" folded over the top, close the seat and turn the catch, this will keep the inside of your
camp toilet clean. These In-viro bags can also be used in a bucket

We've used the Thunderbox for several years car camping in the outback. In remote areas we just put it behind a bush and dig a good sized hole at least 60cm deep, use one of the Inviro bags. If it's a bit exposed or non-private we put up a pop-up shower tent over it. So much better than a chemical toilet. We scoop a bit of gypsum into the thunderbox after each use, and make sure the waste is well buried when we leave, don't want any dingoes digging it up. Pity that there are quite a few people who seem to just go on the ground behind a bush in the outback, leaving toilet paper blowing around.

Nuts I just googled and found that site, haven't gone further at this stage...

If it was car camping some sort of seat would make the experience a bit more pleasant or easier.

Iv'e sent for some bags that apparently start to dissolve almost immediately.. on contact with water.

Big zip locks (with pleanty of paper) do work to get the (hopefully firm) contents to a toilet. Iv'e got several in a drybag, the plan to fold the used bags down under a fresh one. Not ideal but worth the little effort in some places. If it's somewhere remote and little used the standard burry is fine (imo).

Nuts wrote:If it was car camping some sort of seat would make the experience a bit more pleasant or easier.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Yes! well. er.. nice setup you have there strider, a magazine rack, seatbelt?

Really not that hard to do...just a mindset change on how you do your business.



Suitable lightweight pots...in the supermarket this morning, electrolyte & protein powder containers caught my eye.
Cornstarch shopping bags available online.
Disposal...plenty of composting toilets in Qld & Nsw NP campgrounds, even the pitstops along some of
our highways have composting toilets.

I've made 2 tubes
100 and 150mm
I have not needed to use them yet but they are there if and when
What I still haven't found is much info on accelearated decompostion of human feacal waste so in the short term I'll stick with the mix of dry cat litter made from old newspaper mixed wth a little of the enzyme mix Actizyme.
The Actizyme really works fast in my compost bins in the garden.
I'm also wondering if adding in a small vent with a scew cap fitting, painting them black and hanging the tube up in the sun clad in a clear plastic bag would dry out the contents enough to lower the mass significantly.

For several years now I have used a simple wide mouth nalgene container for a poo tube.

A simple off the shelf product.

1 liter for solo overnighters, a 2 liter for when two of go out and a 4 liter for longer trips. And the 2 liter and the 4 liter for longer again trips. I do carry the poo tube in an old dry bag as added security, but the nalgene has not let me down yet.

After the trip flush contents down the toilet and with a few add water and shake with lid on is normally clean. Leave a bit of toilet cleaner in the container between ski trips and already to go.

I've learnt something new.

Alternatives...if your heading down the 'leave-no-trace' path.

Left...homemade 100mm, cap & plug. Heavy
2nd left...Homemade 90mm x 2 caps. Lighter.
Can be cut to any length. Options...use to 2 slip on caps & glue one end, or add a screw-on cap.
Easy to clean, whole hand can fit inside.
Sparkies 100mm HDPE conduit is supposed to be lighter.

The two on the right are lightweight.
But have a lip for the threaded part so slightly harder to clean.
Hand will not fit inside smaller opening.
Wide opening screw top pots are readily available in your local supermarkets in
the Health Food & Washing Powder aisles.

After washing, add a drop of essential oil of your choice for a sweet smelling pot.

https://www.nps.gov/dena/planyourvisit/cmc.htm
http://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-recrea ... man-waste/
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/inyo/rec ... prd3820395
http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com/s ... otland.pdf
http://www.cairngormmountain.org/conservation/
https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/ ... gtrash.htm
https://www.nps.gov/cany/learn/news/news0801513.htm

Compostable bags are available at 'some' Bunnings stores & online.
7 litres is a good size for the 'job'.

Can I make a contribution? (pun fully intended)


My kit (if I ever use it) is:

Brown paper sheets. Not waxed. Not a bag. Just paper. Newspaper OK in a pinch.

Couple of small brown paper bags, unwaxed.

Eco-freindly hippie-approved biodegradable kitty litter, or coconut coir, or some other contact moisture-absorbent material . There's heaps of options nowadays.

Two bottles - an old wide mouth protein powder tub and a smaller one for the kitty litter.

The drill is:

Take a wiz first. Then dig a shellscrape or find a hole somewhere else, line it with paper sheet, and do your necessaries. Once done, immediately cover it with your kitty litter supply. Moisture is what feeds the bacteria and makes the odor. The sooner you get a drying agent on it, the better.

Then, wrap up the paper sheet, bundle it all up in the paper bag and twist the top tight , put it in the big bottle and leave it there until wherever.

The advantage here is that doing the deed itself is no different to just using the ground, but the whole thing ends up contained in a neat 'package' and 100% of the 'package' is composting loo freindly. The times I've done it, emptying involved no smell (save that of the composting loo) and zero mess. Literally just throwing a paper bag in the bin. Simple, clean and eco.

...were not the only one's concerned with the growing poo problem in NP's.

https://www.rei.com/blog/camp/poop-happ ... ppens-next

Is this a legal requirement anywhere or just an option some take? I'd never heard of carrying waste out before this thread, its fairly hard core commitment to my way of thinking. Is this done for multiple night hikes? I enjoy my pack getting lighter as I eat the food, not having to add it back to the packweight, with additional moisture content.

trekker76 wrote:Is this a legal requirement anywhere or just an option some take? I'd never heard of carrying waste out before this thread, its fairly hard core commitment to my way of thinking. Is this done for multiple night hikes? I enjoy my pack getting lighter as I eat the food, not having to add it back to the packweight, with additional moisture content.

I don't know about Australia but in California there are at least a couple of places where it is mandatory. Weight of food eaten ends up being approximately equal to waste weight, so you have to think in terms of a constant pack weight instead of a diminishing one.

Way too bizarre for me, I'm putting this one down to city folks and over populated trails.

Its becoming a requirement for some campsites if you have a group permit. I know of a few organizations that run tubes for their student programs. Generally its as a backup as certain campsites may be farther from the long drop than the students will be able to walk on their own. Certain areas handle the dig holes, but there is some additional concern in regards to sand dune areas, and adding compost into the sand can rapidly change the ecology, as well as be a hazard since composting doesn't happen as well, or it can more easily end up in surface water.

trekker76 wrote:Way too bizarre for me, I'm putting this one down to city folks and over populated trails.

The two places I was thinking of are the Mt. Whitney area and Mt. Shasta. Both of theses places are heavily visited and are fragile due to elevation. Also, they each used to have toilets which required helicopter service and have since been removed. Imagine any of a number of popular Tasmanian walks without any toilets.

The issue of poo tubes popped up in Tassie and perhaps even in Australia with the beginning of a problem at Lake Rhona. They put in a new road for easier access and once groups have easier access, the problem is liable to take off.
All those responding to a thread like this are least likely to cause a problem. It's the beginners, presented with unknown challenges who often go through the messy early stages.
We/i've seen the effects at Lake Oberon and Lake Nameless, the trash but not the poop. I've seen shocking poop problems behind the first line of bushes at the Walls car park and Cutting Grass Camp. I've seen a smaller problem at Rhona but that was 13 years ago.

Fair enough, my comment was a bit flippant.

trekker76 wrote:Is this a legal requirement anywhere or just an option some take?

Certainly mandatory on some river trips in the states and its also the norm on all Franklin River rafting trips in Tasmania. Lots of backcountry ski tourers also do the right thing and carry out their waste

https://www.grandcanyonwhitewater.com/g ... the-river/
https://www.grandcanyonwhitewater.com/w ... e-groover/

https://themountainjournal.wordpress.co ... about-poo/

Once again in the news..
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-31/ ... /103374466

"in the Western Arthurs and at Lake Rhona, only 50 per cent of groups are carrying a shovel," Ms Hickey, Tasmania Parks and Wildlife wilderness ranger, said. She and her colleagues find faeces near rivers, lakes, streams, and campsites and even next to toilets. "We're having the highest-recorded numbers in places like Mt Anne and the Western Arthurs and up into the Walls [of Jerusalem] now than we've ever had." "[And] one of the things we've seen, which is a direct result ... is gastro starting to appear on the walking tracks," Ms Hickey said. "So, I would now never not treat my water at Lake Rhona, in the Western Arthurs, Mt Anne, or the Walls of Jerusalem, where in the past we've not had to.

Humm
The use of a poo tube is that the poo goes in a bag - a corn starch bag - so it can be put in any toilet. Seal the bag up as well as possible and then put that in a poo tube. Put the poo tube on a side pocket of the backpack and disposes of the contents at the next toilet. Where to get corn starch bags? Bunnings have some, as do most vets (for dogs, but I'm not picky)... The local dog park probably has some .. I'd only take one for there for initial 'experimenting', not wanting to deprive the dog owners of there activities.

Corn starch bags, as a guide, last 1 year on the shelf ... degrade in a toilet 90 days, I'd assume they would do similar if they get wet something that could be hard to avoid in Tasmania.

Warin wrote:Corn starch bags, as a guide, last 1 year on the shelf ... degrade in a toilet 90 days, I'd assume they would do similar if they get wet something that could be hard to avoid in Tasmania.

I'm thinking of taking a poo tube on my next OT for those "between huts moments". I'll try wetting some cornstarch bags at home and will report back on what happens.

Cat litter is an excellent addition. It's very light-weight and a 5kg bag costs next to nothing. Just ensure it's kept as dry as. It's designed to odour neutralise to a certain extent. Fifty million cat owners can't be wrong.

From experience, put some litter in one of those green bags, crap onto it, pinch a little hole in the knotted bag, then roll it into a tube with a sheet or two of newspaper and a lacky band. Hang a plastic shopping bag outside the tent and hand carry it back to the car.

I have been using dried coffee grounds as the cover material in the dry separating toilet in my camper as I have easy (free) access to it from my local coffee shop. It works well as an odour neutraliser/moisture absorber and is relatively light and compact once dry. The other commonly used cover material for these toilets is small animal hemp bedding which, while light, is not very compact and is relatively expensive. Not sure how either would compare to kitty litter for weight/space as I didn't consider that for my use.

Warin wrote:Corn starch bags, as a guide, last 1 year on the shelf ... degrade in a toilet 90 days, I'd assume they would do similar if they get wet something that could be hard to avoid in Tasmania.

In a similar vein, does anyone know the shelf life of a wag bag (which I have carried in Alpine areas but never actually had to use)? I'd hate to go to use one and, well, you know.

JohnnoMcJohnno wrote:In a similar vein, does anyone know the shelf life of a wag bag (which I have carried in Alpine areas but never actually had to use)? I'd hate to go to use one and, well, you know.

Nevermind, found out myself. Guaranteed for 1 year. Can last up to 10 years if stored in a clean, dry, moisture free environment.

I wonder how many poo tubes will be left behind at the last hut or walkers registrations so peeps don't have to take them home, put in airplane luggage? Might even see some bobbing up and down in Lake St Clair.