Photo competitions: what makes you click?! ;)

[Tortoise]

Light, composition, MOOD.

But I confess that if a really good image has few (if any) votes, because there are so many really good images that month, and there's a stand out winner, I'll often vote for the former, because I think it deserves acknowledgement.

Never voted on the basis of who the photographer was, and wouldn't. The truth is out, Nuts - it's YOU who does that!!!!

[north-north-west]

I'll vote for anything that shows promise, not playing for sheep stations. I've voted for friends just to get them a show against the collective. Nice pics are a dime a doz.

But it's a photography competition. That's like giving an essay prize to a bit of writing with dreadful grammar, punctuation and spelling because the underlying idea is interesting.

Hang on - you've been bitching about people possibly voting for an image due to (possibly) knowing who the photographer is, when that's what you have done? Well, that ends that argument nicely. Thanks for coming.

[Kainas]

But I confess that if a really good image has few (if any) votes, because there are so many really good images that month, and there's a stand out winner, I'll often vote for the former, because I think it deserves acknowledgement.

Oh yeh I do that too. If I am umming and ahhing about pictures and then I find out one has 20,000 votes, I will choose the other just so that they can see they were voted for. I really don't like landslides because I honestly do not believe that the competitions (that I have seen) are so unbalanced that one picture is so far above the others. It would be fascinating to do an exit poll (in theory, in practice who could be bothered) asking questions like "have you been there", "what were your top 4 choices", "Are you an amateur photographer?" and of course the very heated "do you recognise the photographer", it would always be interesting to see a comparison of voters to winner and voters to photographer to see parallels... and I do not say any of this in an accusatory sense.

My theory is that correlation would be due to several factors:
1. Having been to the location (because I know I would vote for NZ hikes ahead of most others, how could I not).
2. A leaning toward the style of a particular photography (not to say they realise that it is the same photographer... but I wonder how many people lean toward one photographer without realising it).

I would be very curious as to whether the second point applied to a consistent group of people... ie is there a large proportion of people that consistently vote for the winner (without any knowledge of the way others have voted, or of the photographer).

I hope this all comes across with fascination and no other ill intent, because I do believe the landslides are unusual but I don't believe it is simply akin to getting all your FB friends to vote for your awful picture so you can win a competition on some facebook page (I hope you are all familiar enough with facebook to understand the facebook photo comp bias). I was actually a math teacher in the past, and I recall that while at university I had a strong desire to sit outside the McDonalds drive-through and compare burger order with the colour of the car to see if there was a correlation.

Also, enjoying the theory of this discussion as it applies to any photo comp of this type... not actually implying anybody would or should actually do this. Who has that sort of time? Too busy planning for the next walk.

[Nuts]

I'll vote for anything that shows promise, not playing for sheep stations. I've voted for friends just to get them a show against the collective. Nice pics are a dime a doz.

But it's a photography competition. That's like giving an essay prize to a bit of writing with dreadful grammar, punctuation and spelling because the underlying idea is interesting.

Hang on - you've been bitching about people possibly voting for an image due to (possibly) knowing who the photographer is, when that's what you have done? Well, that ends that argument nicely. Thanks for coming.

I don't see it that way. On a community forum i believe it's equally important to encourage those that are almost there. Even better to be able to say so and let the photographer know why (as tedious as that gets) I also never said there was anything wrong with however we choose to vote..

but then some forum members are in too much haste to post (or get a pat on the head) that they don't bother reading, nothing can be done? It's not a surprise to find them hanging around a forum or hanging around certain forum members. Bring on the sledge hammers to my nipple cripples horse bites. It's something new to me how people interact on here, i'm not aware of ever really upsetting anyone so thoroughly in Real life (until bwa) so i'd be interested in seeing what sort of people you really are. Drop around, my address is public.

[stepbystep]

But I confess that if a really good image has few (if any) votes, because there are so many really good images that month, and there's a stand out winner, I'll often vote for the former, because I think it deserves acknowledgement.

Oh yeh I do that too. If I am umming and ahhing about pictures and then I find out one has 20,000 votes, I will choose the other just so that they can see they were voted for. I really don't like landslides because I honestly do not believe that the competitions (that I have seen) are so unbalanced that one picture is so far above the others. It would be fascinating to do an exit poll (in theory, in practice who could be bothered) asking questions like "have you been there", "what were your top 4 choices", "Are you an amateur photographer?" and of course the very heated "do you recognise the photographer", it would always be interesting to see a comparison of voters to winner and voters to photographer to see parallels... and I do not say any of this in an accusatory sense.

My theory is that correlation would be due to several factors:
1. Having been to the location (because I know I would vote for NZ hikes ahead of most others, how could I not).
2. A leaning toward the style of a particular photography (not to say they realise that it is the same photographer... but I wonder how many people lean toward one photographer without realising it).

I would be very curious as to whether the second point applied to a consistent group of people... ie is there a large proportion of people that consistently vote for the winner (without any knowledge of the way others have voted, or of the photographer).

I hope this all comes across with fascination and no other ill intent, because I do believe the landslides are unusual but I don't believe it is simply akin to getting all your FB friends to vote for your awful picture so you can win a competition on some facebook page (I hope you are all familiar enough with facebook to understand the facebook photo comp bias). I was actually a math teacher in the past, and I recall that while at university I had a strong desire to sit outside the McDonalds drive-through and compare burger order with the colour of the car to see if there was a correlation.

Also, enjoying the theory of this discussion as it applies to any photo comp of this type... not actually implying anybody would or should actually do this. Who has that sort of time? Too busy planning for the next walk.

Or trying to pay the bills!

Excellent post that raises lots of discussion points.

I also wonder about the landslide thing. I can think of a few times where I have voted that way because the image was so much better than anything else, but for the most part my vote will go in a direction that either satisfies the way i look at the environment or captivates me in some other undefinable way. I never vote on a shot because it was taken in an area I love or by someone I know. Never have, never will.

I've also never entered any competitions outside of this forum. I hear of all the sniping in the multitude of facebook competitions and I'm not interested, sadly it's now entered this space also. I'm curious as to how my photos are received from a wider audience and I've had a mixed response, but I share my stuff about for a few reasons. Ultimately I'm motivated by conservation and education outcomes, but I get a thrill when people show appreciation for my photography, because I make an effort to shoot and present images that mean something, and I've met some great shooters that have taught me heaps, and motivated me.

I am definitely drawn to a style of shot that's similar to what i would take or how I would pp (ideally) naturelovers shot in the August comp is exactly the shot I would have taken, which is why I voted for it. I could see mistakes in my shot that irritated me but can see why it had broad appeal, the composition was ok and the mood was good, but.... I'm absolutely my worst critic!

Anyhoo, all good stuff, I hope no-one feels shy to put their shots in the comps or are shy to ask for cc, privately or otherwise, it's a fun hobby that can give lots of rewards

[north-north-west]

I'll vote for anything that shows promise, not playing for sheep stations. I've voted for friends just to get them a show against the collective. Nice pics are a dime a doz.

But it's a photography competition. That's like giving an essay prize to a bit of writing with dreadful grammar, punctuation and spelling because the underlying idea is interesting.

I don't see it that way. On a community forum i believe it's equally important to encourage those that are almost there. Even better to be able to say so and let the photographer know why (as tedious as that gets)

If people want/need encouragement they can post their photos in the gallery or trip report sections and even ask for advice. It's a much more appropriate venue and process for that. It is also rare for photos to be critiqued in the comp, so people are highly unlikely to get any real feedback unless they win - in which case it's not really necessary. The recent (ongoing ) discussion is an anomaly.

[Nuts]

Positively.

I like the idea of 1-3 voting.

[north-north-west]

My system - which might be a bit difficult to implement - would be to give every voter a certain maximum number of points in each section, to distribute as they see fit. They could give all the points to one shot, or an equal amount to each, or any division they see fit, including not using all the points because they think the overall standard is undeserving.
In the end, provided people were honest about their choices, it would give a far better idea of the voters' assessment of the entries.

[Nuts]

Lol.. i'd rather everyone got at least a few points.. was thinking more of being easier to pick three.. though it doesn't make much sense to the outcome other than bigger numbers. Maybe a big C(C) button if the owner can take a bit of constructive criticism.. I dunno, i'd probably appreciate it (thinking back to the way it was written.. ) or criticism would just very likely roll off..

[north-north-west]

Lol.. i'd rather everyone got at least a few points..

Why? A *&%$#! photo is a *&%$#! photo and no amount of patting on the back can change that. Give someone points for a bad shot and they're less likely to realise how bad it is. A stickied thread for 'how do I make this better' would be far more effective.

[stepbystep]

A stickied thread for 'how do I make this better' would be far more effective.

Actually that's an excellent idea. Rather than ppl giving unsolicited advice/criticism a topic simply for constructive criticism(CC) would be a great thing. I'd be happy to help out where I can. There is plenty of free pp softwhere these days that improve things no end. And nuts can create his own conspiracy theory thread!

[Nuts]

A stickied thread for 'how do I make this better' would be far more effective.

Or we could just make considered comments as we see fit and choose not to burst a seam at how others roll
- my precious petals

[ILUVSWTAS]

i'm not aware of ever really upsetting anyone so thoroughly in Real life

So you dont think of the internet as being real life? That there is probably the number one reason you seem to get under the skin of every person you ever communicate with.
?

This is intended as a serious question, i'm interested to see if you can answer it seriously without having a cheap shot.

[GPSGuided]

Here is a question. Is the photo competition here to elect the most popular photograph, as perceived by the audience here or to elect the "best" photo from an artistic point of view?

[ILUVSWTAS]

Hey GSPG.

I'd have thought it would be for whatever purpose the voter decides?
Usual scenario in a photo competition though is to vote for the photo you think should win. But i'm not here to tell people what they should or shouldn't do, you hear?

[Tortoise]

A stickied thread for 'how do I make this better' would be far more effective.

Actually that's an excellent idea. Rather than ppl giving unsolicited advice/criticism a topic simply for constructive criticism(CC) would be a great thing. I'd be happy to help out where I can. There is plenty of free pp softwhere these days that improve things no end.

I agree with you both. I found the 'Image Doctor' in Aust. Photography really interesting/helpful. I think it'd be great to have something along those lines - though with anybody who'd like to contribute constructive criticism rather than just an 'expert'. Of course there's plenty of subjectivity, and knowing when/how to 'break the rules' of a good image isn't always easy to convey.

So people could submit any image (not just those submitted in a comp), and ask for feedback. Hopefully people could stick to the intent of the thread. Do we raise this / move it to forum/site thingy somehow?

[GPSGuided]

I'd have thought it would be for whatever purpose the voter decides?

Yes, so there's an averaging effect. A reason why many art competitions have a judged winner and a winner by popular vote, often quite different choices. Nothing wrong with it but a good perspective to have.

The idea of opening for comments and suggestions is an interesting one. I suspect some may not have the tummy to wear it. What would be more sensible is for those who are interested to open their work up for comments. At the end of the day, the next Ansel Adams may never win Bushwalker's competition, but would be nice if our communal eye can spot him/her.

[ILUVSWTAS]

I'd have thought it would be for whatever purpose the voter decides?

Yes, so there's an averaging effect. A reason why many art competitions have a judged winner and a winner by popular vote, often quite different choices. Nothing wrong with it but a good perspective to have.

Indeed, and it is usually excellent, however on a forum such as this where the photo comp is just deemed a bit of fun for the average clicker, probably not worthwhile.

If we could actually get some kind of prizes however......

[Tortoise]

The idea of opening for comments and suggestions is an interesting one. I suspect some may not have the tummy to wear it. What would be more sensible is for those who are interested to open their work up for comments.

Yes! There's often not many entries in the comps, and I'd hate to see anybody pull out because of unsolicited feedback they're just not wanting at this point, no matter what the state of their tummies!
I think it'd have a wider appeal if it were open to anyone, not just those who submit entries to comps. Who knows, in time, we might get a lot more people having a go there, if they can gain confidence/skill in a more 'relaxed' context.

[GPSGuided]

Indeed, and it is usually excellent, however on a forum such as this where the photo comp is just deemed a bit of fun for the average clicker, probably not worthwhile.

Indeed, all for a bit of fun within the community. Nothing too serious but some may...

[ILUVSWTAS]

Indeed, and it is usually excellent, however on a forum such as this where the photo comp is just deemed a bit of fun for the average clicker, probably not worthwhile.

Indeed, all for a bit of fun within the community. Nothing too serious but some may...

Hahaha indeed it does seem some may

[GPSGuided]

Yes! There's often not many entries in the comps, and I'd hate to see anybody pull out because of unsolicited feedback they're just not wanting at this point, no matter what the state of their tummies!
I think it'd have a wider appeal if it were open to anyone, not just those who submit entries to comps. Who knows, in time, we might get a lot more people having a go there, if they can gain confidence/skill in a more 'relaxed' context.

I agree. Whilst there may be simple non-controversial advice like focus or alignment, then there may be more subjective POV. What could be interesting is for an interested member to post their original full sized photo file (not cropped and compressed 200kb files) and fellow members can have a go at cropping, adjusting exposure/saturation amongst all levels of controls that are available to the digital photography realm. I think we have a lot of talented and skilled Photoshoppers here and could really be educational to the less experienced. Perhaps even a competition by vote for the best "darkroomed" result within each thread.

[Tortoise]

Yes! There's often not many entries in the comps, and I'd hate to see anybody pull out because of unsolicited feedback they're just not wanting at this point, no matter what the state of their tummies!
I think it'd have a wider appeal if it were open to anyone, not just those who submit entries to comps. Who knows, in time, we might get a lot more people having a go there, if they can gain confidence/skill in a more 'relaxed' context.

I agree. Whilst there may be simple non-controversial advice like focus or alignment, then there may be more subjective POV. What could be interesting is for an interested member to post their original full sized photo file (not cropped and compressed 200kb files) and fellow members can have a go at cropping, adjusting exposure/saturation amongst all levels of controls that are available to the digital photography realm. I think we have a lot of talented and skilled Photoshoppers here and could really be educational to the less experienced. Perhaps even a competition by vote for the best "darkroomed" result.

Wow, that's another very interesting idea! I think it'd be great to have 2 separate options, though - one just general issues on how to improve a shot without post-camera adjustments, and another that people could have a go at with PP, GIMP etc - I have soooo much to learn!

[icefest]

Perhaps even a competition by vote for the best "darkroomed" result within each thread.

That sounds like fun. I'll convert one of my shots to DNG (and tiff16) and post it up tonight.

[GPSGuided]

Yes, I think it'd be worthwhile and interesting. I am not seeing an appropriate subforum for this but may be worth discussing the idea with Adam and the group and see whether a specific "Photography - Education" subforum could be created. Members may submit their image with a link to the original unedited image file for download. Don't think Bushwalk.com should sustain the multi-megabyte files but use Dropbox or other file hosting services. Then let the darkroom sport begin. I think it could help people to gain additional perspectives in their visualisation and see the potential improvements/changes one can make through digital processes.

Adam, are you around?

[Nuts]

He'll be around in good time GPS, in no rush i'd imagine

i'm not aware of ever really upsetting anyone so thoroughly in Real life

So you dont think of the internet as being real life? That there is probably the number one reason you seem to get under the skin of every person you ever communicate with.
?

This is intended as a serious question, i'm interested to see if you can answer it seriously without having a cheap shot.

No, it's really only yourself, to a lesser extent sbs. There's been a couple of others, Hallu and that geotagging guy could easily join your covern, the occasional wayward sycophant. Not that I think I go looking for trouble..

How many on your list Trackmaster?
I can detail exactly why I don't give it a second thought (getting under your skin) but i'm sure we don't want to drag over that old ground. And you don't seem to read further back than necessary so there's no real point. What option do I have but amusement.

[stepbystep]

A pinned Constructive Criticism thread in the photography forum would be fine, with a dropbox that could be cleaned out every month for RAW files.

Oh and some moderation wouldn't go astray...

[GPSGuided]

Oh and some moderation wouldn't go astray...

Do you think people would get hot headed over a few red pixels?

[stepbystep]

Haha, don't be nuts!

[north-north-west]

Oh and some moderation wouldn't go astray...

Do you think people would get hot headed over a few red pixels?

They've been getting pretty blue, actually.