Jetboil Ti Sol

[etrangere]

I just recieved an order from Basegear.com

Jetboil Ti Sol Premium Cooking System
Katadyn Hiker Pro Water Filter
Katadyn Hiker Pro Filter Replacement Cartridge
Light My Fire Mini Firesteel
Snow Peak Trek 900 Titanium Cookset

Ordered items $328
Postage $60
Total $388

First thing I was impressed with was delivery time. Regular USPS postage they claim 2 - 4 weeks. Since I was going away soon I figured I would get USPS International Express which they claim is 1 - 2 weeks delivery, I can't recall the exact difference but I think it was only an extra $6 - $10 for the International express postage. From the day I ordered the goods online to when I recieved them was 10 DAYS! After all the discussion on this forum re waiting times, custom hold ups, time difference between time ordering and processing etc I was a bit worried i wouldnt get the goodies before I went away.

Anyways I just thought I'd give my quick initial impressions of the Jetboil Ti Sol

- burner attatchment feels a bit delicate, perhaps its just because of how light it is
- handle on neoprene pot cover is TOTALLY USELESS and just gets in the way, I unpicked the stitching and took mine off
- neoprene pot cover gives off a really rubbery smell, this is worse when the stove is in use
- fuel stabiliser doesnt seem to clip onto the cannisters that firmly, it works, but just not quite as secure as I would prefer
- plastic cup on the bottom doesnt come off that easily, not such a bad thing really. I found a pulling/twisting action worked better than just trying to pull it straight off
- the titanium cup cools off to the touch quickly, even the base/fins at the bottom do. Had heard some reports of people melting their plastic cups by placing them on the bottom when it was still hot. Perhaps thats more an issue with the aluminium Jetboils as they would cool slower.
- to use you place the titanium cup on the burner stand and twist to lock it in place, I found that it didnt unlock very easily when trying to remove the cup from the stand. When i held onto the cannister at the bottom and tried to remove the cup it actually started to unscrew the burner from the cannister instead. When the stove cooled I gently pushed the rim on the burner stand outwards around the whole edge and i found afterwards that the cup is easier to remove now but still a little stiff. This seems to be more of a problem then the stove is hot, maybe there is a slight difference in expansion rates of the titanium cup and the rim of the burner stand which i presume is aluminium or steel
- the plastic lid is tinted and can be a little hard to see through in lower lighting

I did a quick comparison

Weight
Jetboil Ti Sol system - 335g
Kovea Ultralite stove + Snow Peak Trek 700 mug + LMF Mini Firesteel - 201g

500 mls rolling boil - time/fuel use
Rolling boil Jetboil Ti Sol - 1:50 min/5g fuel
Kovea Ultralight setup - 3:50 min/10g fuel

As a guide if you boiled 2 x 500 mls a day the difference would be 10gms of fuel a day. Taking into consideration the weight differences the Jetboil Ti Sol becomes more weight efficient after about 13 days use as a rough guideline.

If you decided not to take the Jetboil pot support, tripod stabiliser and plastic cup then the system only weights 236g and the Jetboil would become more weight efficient after 3 - 4 days.

But in saying that for peace of mind I dont think I would ever use the system without the tripod stabiliser and plastic cup to be honest. When storing Jetboil recommends placing the tripod stabiliser in the Ti cup first followed by the burner face down followed by cannister and pot support then lid. By doing this the tripod stabiliser protects the peizo igniter which from the reviews I have seen seems to be rather delicate and easily broken. Also the plastic cup at the bottom of the set protects the bottom edge and flux rings. Perhaps I'm just overly cautious with my toys!

A couple of other points of difference
- Jetboil has the Sol Thermo-Regulate burner which is meant to give consistant heat down to -6 C
- The Kovea Ultralite can take a few attempts to get it to light with a LMF firesteel which probably wastes a little bit more gas compared to lighting with an peizo igniter

Well those are my first impressions anyways. By the way I cant recommend BaseGear.com highly enough. I have ordered goods through them 3 - 4 times and thay have always been excellent

[Macca81]

- to use you place the titanium cup on the burner stand and twist to lock it in place, I found that it didnt unlock very easily when trying to remove the cup from the stand. When i held onto the cannister at the bottom and tried to remove the cup it actually started to unscrew the burner from the cannister instead. When the stove cooled I gently pushed the rim on the burner stand outwards around the whole edge and i found afterwards that the cup is easier to remove now but still a little stiff. This seems to be more of a problem then the stove is hot, maybe there is a slight difference in expansion rates of the titanium cup and the rim of the burner stand which i presume is aluminium or steel

Same thing for the PCS, however i find that i never actually take the cup off of the burner while im using it, im happy to just leave it on there and just remove the canister. The burner only gets removed for storage.

[ninjapuppet]

one thing i have thought about that annoys me abit, is boiling a litre of water for hot water bottle usage.

in the past, i have usually collected a litre of water in a nalgene whilst walking. then at camp, just pour it into a pot bigger than 1L to boil, then pour it back in. with the 0.8L sol Ti, you have 3 options:
- to do 2 boils, which is a pain.
- leave 200ml in the bottle and just boil 800ml. but the bottle wont be as warm.
- leave out the 200ml and just fill the nalgene up with 800ml of boiled water. however i find that this tends to build up steam and much more likely to make your nalgene to leak if you dont screw it on very tightly. if the bottle is full, its much less likely to build steam pressure to leak.

in the past, I have actually taken along the heavier reactor instead of the jetboil for this sol .. i mean sole reason.

[Orion]

Nice writeup.

I've been making similar comparisons between the Jetboil products and my own cobbled together "cooking systems" since the first Jetboil appeared in 2003.

As a guide if you boiled 2 x 500 mls a day the difference would be 10gms of fuel a day. Taking into consideration the weight differences the Jetboil Ti Sol becomes more weight efficient after about 13 days use as a rough guideline.

Given that canister fuel comes in quantized amounts your magic number is actually 12 days, when your other setup requires you to carry an extra one. If the smaller 100g canisters are available then the trip need only be more than 5 days long to make a difference.

If you decided not to take the Jetboil pot support, tripod stabiliser and plastic cup then the system only weights 236g and the Jetboil would become more weight efficient after 3 - 4 days.

Alas, the same issue means that after 4 days your Jetboil system and canister will actually weigh MORE because of the extra unburned fuel you are carrying. Unless you tailor a partially empty canister for a particular trip you'll carry less weight over time if your stove burns the fuel faster. Otherwise the magic number is once again the same as before.

[photohiker]

Given that canister fuel comes in quantized amounts your magic number is actually 12 days, when your other setup requires you to carry an extra one.

Depends.

Since I bought the Sol, I have moved from carrying the large canisters to the small ones. 100g is more than enough for a week now.

ninjapuppet, if one of your prerequisites for a stove is to boil 1L of water in a single boil, why did you buy a 0.8L stove system?

[ninjapuppet]

ninjapuppet, if one of your prerequisites for a stove is to boil 1L of water in a single boil, why did you buy a 0.8L stove system?

Dont get me wrong, the jetboil is great for longer summer trips where you dont need to boil a litre of water for the nalgenes.


The jetboil is specified as being able to boil 12L
Last week I wasted a new 100g cannister by doing some testing in my kitchen with the jetboil and managed to only boil 10.5L x 500ml lots. the 11th Litre nearly boiled but didnt quite make it. My cannister was verified to contain just slightly more than 100g of gas, so it must have been that either I had the gas knob turned on higher than it needed to be. In either case, boiling 10L for a system this weight is incredible.

[etrangere]

Orion,

Your point is totally valid. After I placed my post i thought about it and as far as I can see the Kovea setup becomes heavier once you need to carry an extra fuel cannister. Which at 2 x 500mls boils a day = 20gms of fuel a day become 5 days just as you mentioned.

[Orion]

etrangere, I'm curious -- what were the parameters you used in your boil comparison?

Water initial temperature
Air temperature
Wind?
Indoors or outdoors?
What's "boiling" mean? A few good bubbles or a solid rolling one?

I've never actually used a Jetboil product outdoors and I'm wondering how this relates to my own measured fuel usage in the field.

[ofuros]

Last week I wasted a new 100g cannister by doing some testing in my kitchen with the jetboil and managed to only boil 10.5L x 500ml lots. the 11th Litre nearly boiled but didnt quite make it

Yep, did the same test myself when I received mine.....ran out of puff on the 11th litre.

[Orion]

When the first Jetboil product was announced in 2003 the marketing included figures that were physically impossible unless one assumed an unusually high initial water temperature or very high altitude conditions (low boiling temperature). They were contacted about this and in response they modified their website to be a bit more realistic. Included in this was the admission that they were using an initial water temperature of 80°F (26.7°C). This is significantly higher than what is usally used for comparison testing.

So what are they claiming now with regards to a boil time of 2:15 for 500ml and 12l for a 100g canister? Do they say what the water temperature is? I'll bet they don't!

[etrangere]

Hey Orion,

The comparison test was just a quick straight out of the box first time use kind of thing to give an initial guide.

So it was just a side by side test on the kitchen bench using cold water straight out of the tap done to a rolling boil. Same time/temp/conditions etc for both. No doubt they would both use more fuel in outdoor/windy conditions but I suspect that the jetboil would still use only half the amount as the Kovea.

[Orion]

Jetboil claims 80% efficiency on their website (actually their claim varies depending on which web page you look at). That translates into 12 liters of water boiled, if the water starts at 80°F. So it isn't surprising that nobody actually boils 12 liters with a 100g canister.

etrangere -- you boiled half a liter with 5 grams of fuel with your Ti Sol. We don't know what your tap water temperature is but if we suppose it's somewhere between 15°C and 25°C then your Ti Sol fuel efficiency would be somewhere between 68% and 77%. That implies that your Kovea efficiency is under 40%.

When I tested my own stove at home (Snowpeak and a beer can pot) the efficiency was 49%. When I tested with my larger 2 liter pot the efficiency was 55%. I turn down the flame for the narrow beer can. I wonder, etrangere, are you adjusting the flame output for your narrow Snowpeak mug to optimize fuel efficiency?


Another look at the weight comparison between your Ti Sol and Kovea:

Even when exceeding the "magic number" of 5 days the Ti Sol is still not an obvious winner. Consider a trip that you know will be between 6 and 10 days. Based on your expected fuel usage you can take the Ti Sol and a 100g canister or take the Kovea and a 230g canister. Here is a chart showing the weight of stove and fuel over the course of this trip for each case:



The Kovea starts out heavier but from 4 days on it's lighter. The average total weight for the trip is less for the Ti Sol up to 7 days but heavier if you stay out 8-10 days. The absolute weight difference in either case is relatively small, something on the order of 50g. Which would you take?


For another perspective, look at the posts from Benjamin Tomsky in this discussion:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=6264

[photohiker]

The Kovea starts out heavier but from 4 days on it's lighter. The average total weight for the trip is less for the Ti Sol up to 7 days but heavier if you stay out 8-10 days. The absolute weight difference in either case is relatively small, something on the order of 50g. Which would you take?

If the weight difference is little, I'd take the more efficient stove. Step lighter.

Also, my personal experience is that I have not been able to get 10 days in real life conditions out of a 230g can with my SP which I suspect is about as efficient as the Kovea. Interesting comparison all the same.

[Tony]

The Kovea starts out heavier but from 4 days on it's lighter. The average total weight for the trip is less for the Ti Sol up to 7 days but heavier if you stay out 8-10 days. The absolute weight difference in either case is relatively small, something on the order of 50g. Which would you take?
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=6264

For solo use if I had to choose between the two systems then I would choose the JetBoil Sol Ti, as it is easier to use and quicker, works better in windy conditions and you do not have to stuff around with a windshield, I currently use a Kovea Supalite as I normally cook for two and 0.8 liters is not big enough.

There is an excellent review on integrated canister stoves. on BPL

I also find that I use more fuel in the field than with testing in my shed.

Tony

[Orion]

Tony, of course the numbers are somewhat artificial. But if the 2:1 relative fuel use is similar in the field the advantages are minimal at best. For someone who didn't own a stove the Ti Sol would be the poorer option because it lacks the versatility for doing what you frequently do -- use a larger pot. And for shorter trips with minimal cooking it is decidedly the heavier option.

I haven't used a Jetboil in the field so I can't make direct comparisons. In that post by Benjamin Tomsky he gives figures for his fuel use (Jetboil and Optimus Crux). His fuel use for the Crux is very close to what I get in the field. And instead of the 2:1 ratio that etrangere reported from home tests Benjamin gets a ratio of 1.5:1.

If you redo that chart with the assumption of Benjamin's fuel usage then the "magic number" would come later, at 6 days. And the Jetboil with 100g canister would run out of gas after 9 days instead of 10. So the Jetboil would only have a weight advantage for a trip that is 7 to 9 days long.

I must sound like I'm biased against the Jetboil products. The truth is I've wanted one ever since it first came out. It looks so cool. But checking the numbers revealed that it didn't offer any advantage. When I heard about the Ti Sol I was again excited, only to discover the same thing.

But they are very popular so the added weight and lack of versatility must be secondary considerations for many people.

[etrangere]

I agree with Orion on the Kovea Ultralite or Optimus Crux over a Jetboil product. Overall I would consider my Kovea Ultralite certainly a more versatile & better buy.

Packs in:
Snow Peak 600 or 700 mug with 100g canister
Snow 900 with a 220 g canister
Mini Trangia pot/pan with a 100g canister

A Jetboil Ti Sol isnt as versatile for a lot more $, and the price of their add on fry pans in Aus is ridiculous!

[Nuts]

Just a heads up on a topic i read. Apparently there have been a few cases of poor welds(?) causing melted fins on these. I don't own one, don't know if you could tell (before it happens) or what's involved in a warranty claim

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... ost=462390

[hikin_jim]

Jetboil claims 80% efficiency on their website (actually their claim varies depending on which web page you look at). That translates into 12 liters of water boiled, if the water starts at 80°F. So it isn't surprising that nobody actually boils 12 liters with a 100g canister.

etrangere -- you boiled half a liter with 5 grams of fuel with your Ti Sol. We don't know what your tap water temperature is but if we suppose it's somewhere between 15°C and 25°C then your Ti Sol fuel efficiency would be somewhere between 68% and 77%. That implies that your Kovea efficiency is under 40%.

When I tested my own stove at home (Snowpeak and a beer can pot) the efficiency was 49%. When I tested with my larger 2 liter pot the efficiency was 55%. I turn down the flame for the narrow beer can. I wonder, etrangere, are you adjusting the flame output for your narrow Snowpeak mug to optimize fuel efficiency?


Another look at the weight comparison between your Ti Sol and Kovea:

Even when exceeding the "magic number" of 5 days the Ti Sol is still not an obvious winner. Consider a trip that you know will be between 6 and 10 days. Based on your expected fuel usage you can take the Ti Sol and a 100g canister or take the Kovea and a 230g canister. Here is a chart showing the weight of stove and fuel over the course of this trip for each case:



The Kovea starts out heavier but from 4 days on it's lighter. The average total weight for the trip is less for the Ti Sol up to 7 days but heavier if you stay out 8-10 days. The absolute weight difference in either case is relatively small, something on the order of 50g. Which would you take?


For another perspective, look at the posts from Benjamin Tomsky in this discussion:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=6264

These comparisons are very very good, AND I also think the need for a windshield needs to be factored in for a non-Jetboil stove. I don't know if people have seen this post by Tony, but your gas usage can really go up if you're not using a windscreen. On the other hand, the Jetboil has some innate windproofness.

The comparison we have is very very good, and I think the windscreen weight issue needs to be factored in.

HJ

[Ent]

For solo use if I had to choose between the two systems then I would choose the JetBoil Sol Ti, as it is easier to use and quicker, works better in windy conditions and you do not have to stuff around with a windshield, I currently use a Kovea Supalite as I normally cook for two and 0.8 liters is not big enough.
Tony

I agree with you Tony and hopefully when mine turns up it will prove to be a good addition to my growing stove collection. I find with the Primus ETA system it is not so much fuel usage but fast boil times that I appreciate. Windshields with a lot of systems can be rather a nuisance.

Cheers

[Nuts]

I haven't owned any jetboil gear, was waiting to hear if they found an upgrade around the problem above (seems nothing gets between stove freaks and a new stove ). Anyhow, Jetboil response in this may be of interest, anyone else used theirs a lot yet?:

http://blog.bloatedgoat.org/?p=33

[hikingoz]

I haven't owned any jetboil gear, was waiting to hear if they found an upgrade around the problem above (seems nothing gets between stove freaks and a new stove ). Anyhow, Jetboil response in this may be of interest, anyone else used theirs a lot yet?:

http://blog.bloatedgoat.org/?p=33

I have a jetboil flash (bought of basegear) which doesn't ignite using the piezo ignition. I've heard of others with the same problem. I got mine to light consistently using the instructions at the bottom of the link nuts posted above (at home atleast).

I've also heard that the ceramic insulater can crack creating an ineffective arc.

My other gripe is that 500mls of boiling water is not the limit of my cooking requirements. I want to determine how I use my stove, not the other way around. This is why I don't use the Jetboil anymore.

[Orion]

Does anyone have an idea what the Jetboil "Thermoregulator" consists of? They imply that it improves cold-weather performance but I suspect that this is marketing double-speak. Is there a stove geek out there that knows what is under the hood?

[Ent]

Hi

Tony would be the one to PM on this. My understanding is unless the system uses a pre-heater system it is pretty much marketing hype. Yet to find a sit on top of canister that works well in freezing conditions. In those conditions a remote stove with pre-heater that you can invert the canister is the way to go. I am curious though with Jetboil as most seams to be happy with the cold weather performance so might be a mixture of good heat shield design and enough heat from the flame warming the canister.

I must admit I have never been a fan of the Jetboil cup system as narrow pots have the characterises of a food volcano but I plan to use it for walks that I will be knackered on so wanting quick heat up for drinks and to “experiment” with prepackage meals. Um? Wonder how long that idea will last with me? Time will tell as suggested by Nuts it is a brave person that stands between a different stove and gear freak

Cheers

[photohiker]

Backpacking Light reckon its

Jetboil Thermo-Regulate™ Technology, which is a pressure regulator that maintains burner output as the fuel in the canister diminishes and improves performance in temperatures down to 20 F (-6 C).

So a smarter on/off valve that is pressure compensated?

Whatever, it seems to work brilliantly. Nuts, I've used mine maybe 30 times (water only) and have not had any of those problems. Will let you know if anything untoward occurs...

This is not a stove you turn on and walk away from, I imagine it wouldn't take long to boil dry.

[Tony]

Hi

Tony would be the one to PM on this. My understanding is unless the system uses a pre-heater system it is pretty much marketing hype. Yet to find a sit on top of canister that works well in freezing conditions. In those conditions a remote stove with pre-heater that you can invert the canister is the way to go. I am curious though with Jetboil as most seams to be happy with the cold weather performance so might be a mixture of good heat shield design and enough heat from the flame warming the canister.

I must admit I have never been a fan of the Jetboil cup system as narrow pots have the characterises of a food volcano but I plan to use it for walks that I will be knackered on so wanting quick heat up for drinks and to “experiment” with prepackage meals. Um? Wonder how long that idea will last with me? Time will tell as suggested by Nuts it is a brave person that stands between a different stove and gear freak

Cheers

Hi Ent,

Sorry about not replying earlier but I am reading a good book at the moment "Mawson” and the Ice Men of the heroic Age: Scott, Shackleton and Amundsen by Peter Fitzsimons 730 odd pages and the rest of the world has had to wait.

There was some discussion on BPl about how the JetBoil pressure regulator works and if it does actually make it work at lower temperatures than a non pressure regulated stove, and basically I am not convinced that having a pressure regulator makes any difference. I do not know what the pressure regulator design is, JB has kept that secret, but what I do know is that the laws of physics are the laws of physics and having a pressure regulator does not change them.

Tony

[Orion]

There was some discussion on BPl...

Thanks, Tony. I should have looked there first. Cheers.

[Ent]

Hi Tony

I agree, if all it does in warmer condition limit the gas flow then it is nothing more than you can do with the control valve. I will not argue that Jetboil owners seem happy enough in colder weather but that might be due to a good wind resisting design, effective flux ring, and better quality gas in their custom 100 gram cylinders. When mine turns up I will experience either joy or disappointment. Stand by

Cheers Brett

[Franco]

A mate has and loves his Sol Alluminium version.
He has used it on several trips , not a problem so far.
A few days temps were around or below zero (down to about -5c, last he had an Optimus canister) but in areas where we could find running water. (he has the XGK otherwise)
I recommended to him the Al version rather than the TI because he often "cooks" and the weight savings did not make all that much of an impression on me.
(I use Ti pots...)
he is now addicted to that HOT WATER gauge.
His"'pot" remains hot/warm a lot longer than my 550ml Ti pot, no questions about that.

Franco

[Ent]

Hi

Had a chance to use my Ti Sol. As a water boiling device it is brilliant. But for cooking not so sure. It will simmer at a very low flame but the bottom is so thin even this does not always stop burning. I reheated pumpkin soup and with care and no burning so very happy. Tried baked beans and put up 2 mil of water in the bottom to help. Thought I had done a great job but noted matching the flame size burnt residue on the bottom. Did not effect the meal but made for a hard clean up. At least no non stick coating to worry about so eventually removed the residue.

As a system, it is very compact and packs up nicely but the handle is a bad joke. For a few grams more a thicker bottom would be good but still the small base and high sides makes for a tricky cooking pot.

It will never replace the Primus Gravity with 6.5" pots I have but as the name suggest for a solo walker looking more for hot drinks and boil water type meals it is hard to go past as a system. More playing is in order to figure it out

Cheers

[Azza]

The fins on the Jet Boil TI - melt and disintegrate very easily if you turn the gas up too high when you have semi-solid / not plain water in the pot.
Something to be aware of, therefore if its burning on the bottom then your in danger of overheating and melting the fins.
Unfortunately I did this being too while impatient reheating a dehydrated meal. The metal just burnt and flaked off like foil.

As the diagrams indicate on the side the only thing you can 'Jet boil' is water.
However I find the system really good for reconstituting home dehydrated meals on longer trips where weight is an issue.
Just the fact I can boil a cup of water in a few seconds for a cup of coffee is a bonus as well.