Having trouble with my first tent choice

[pjtn]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and need some advice. I'm a landscape photographer and I'm looking for a tent to travel in on photo trips. I'd like to use it all year round here in South Australia, so mostly warm dry weather (however this may change one day). We won't need to walk far with the tent so weight is not the most important issue (this may also change one day too). I've been looking around and become more and more confused but managed to narrow it down to a few that I like:

- MSR Mutha Hubba
- Vaude Mark II (Not sure how it would do in the heat)
- Exped Venus III (Not sure how it would do in the heat)
- Salewa Sierra Leone III (Not sure how it would do in the heat)
- Wilderness Equipment First Arrow (Seems like a very old design)
- Mont Moondance 2 (Not sure if this is in the same quality league, looks like a copy of the MSR Hubba Hubba)

I'm new to this so my choices might be far off the mark. I've only seen an MSR Hubba Hubba and what I think was a Wilderness Equipment Second Arrow in Adelaide. I don't live in the city so it's very hard to see these tents.

I'd love to hear what everyones opinion is

[norts]

I have the 1st Arrow. The design has been arround for awhile, but that just means it works. It is not a very light tent but it will handle just about anything thrown at it.
One of the reasons I bought it was that it has very good ventilation. If you open both end you can get very good air flow. Which I presume will be an important factor in SA.
If you need a big 2 man tent then 1st Arrow but if you only need a small (cosy)2 man then the 2nd Arrow would be a good choice and lighter but is not 4 season.
From this shot you can see how much the front can be open and if you open the back up you get a good through draft.

It can also handle snow

Roger

[pjtn]

Thanks Roger. It does look to have decent ventilation which I think will be very important in the heat. I've heard it can be fiddly to set up and is hard to pull the fly taught?

I've actually been leaning towards the Vaude Mark II but am unsure how it would fare in warmer conditions being a German tent. It has two vestibules that have mesh doors on either end so I'm assuming this would be ok.

The MSR Mutha Hubba abnd Mont Moondance 3 have mesh inners with the option to pull the entire fly sheet off which may be potentially useful.

[tasadam]

No association apart from owning more than one, but how come the Hilleberg doesn't fit on the shortlist?
Google (or search this forum) for the Nallo2.

By the way, I read the topic title and thought "yeah, we all go thru that..."

[Mountain Rocket]

Not that is very relevant to the content of this thread, other than the title, but my biggest problem for a first tent was one or two man!

[Gusto]

The First Arrow is probably the most versatile of those tents. I don't find it difficult to pitch. It's not lightweight and it's not cheap. But it is a very useable tent. Very cleverly designed

[farkewie]

Hey,

I have the MSr Hubba Hubba living in QLD, it is great. Perfect for summer but still handles the winter pretty well. I assume it is the same as the Mutha Hubba. One thing I really like is the vertical walls. it creates a lot of room in the tent. I can also say the Western Mountaineering tents are good. But you will take a hit in both weight and price. I would not worry how tricky a tent is to set up. Once you own it and start using it you will normally get used to it a work out a system.

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[mattmacman]

For ventilation and a large vestibule the Exped Vela 1 isn't a bad option, not the roomiest interior.

[pjtn]

Thanks a lot everyone for the replies.

Tasadam, I'm looking into the Hilleberg just now after your recommendation. I hadn't considered them because I heard they're very expensive and thought they were for very cold climates. It looks a lot like the Exped Aries.

Gusto, I'm curious about what makes the First Arrow more versatile than the other tents on the list?

Farkewie, your MSR looks very nice. With all that mesh it must handle the heat extremely well, it makes me sway a little more the the Mutha Hubba.

Mattmacman, I'll check out the Exped Vela. I like the Exped products.

I'm still confused how to tell a tent designed for cold weather from one designed for warm weather. Looking at the temperature at night for some of the places we intend to go it ranges between 9º to 24º C. Would that instantly rule out any of these tents as an option?

[mattmacman]

Usually warmer weather tents have solid inners and are slightly heavier.

[farkewie]

Hi,

A cold weather tent normally has less airflow, so it will have less mesh and more material. It may have the fly outer closer to the ground around the sides. amongst a lot of other things like pole structure. A lot of it comes down to personal preference. The Msr is a "Three" season tent but as you can see it was fine is some slight snow, it excels more in the summer because you can create great airflow.

I have no experience with the other except the WE Tent IMHO, it is classed as a more versatile tent because it will perform well in all seasons... It may not excel at any given one but it is that trusty tent to can take anywhere and not completely suffer.

Personally, if your 90% trips are the season especially in your mentioned temps, I think the WE is not worth the extra expense. If you had money to throw at it, and are not a gram counter and were unsure what your tents needs would be in 2 years then consider the WE.

Like I said, that's my personal opinion

[pjtn]

So does that make the Vaude Mark II a bad choice?

I'm not sure why but I am quite keen on that tent.

[DonQx]

Susanne & me spend a reasonable amount of time living in our tents ... bushwalking, motorbike camping touring, kayaking & bicycle touring.

For example, last year 7 weeks from Tassie to Darwin via the East Coast and back through the centre ... mostly in an Exped Venus III ... pics at our website ... http://ahack.org/ direct link to slideshow: http://members.iinet.net.au/~ahack/x_Shows/2010-06%20Darwin%20%27n%20Outback%20Ride/index.html).

Here's the Venus III earlier this year somewhere in Tassie



We've had all sorts of tents over the years, current collection also includes the Salewa Sierra Leone II ... here last Xmas ...





Some of our conclusions/criteria:
- All mesh inner is very nice when it is hot, but a bummer in a sand storm. Or during a very cold night in the Outback.
- An all-solid inner with mesh doors are the best compromise we've found so far.
- Entrances on the long side of the tent are much more convenient.
- A light coloured tent absorbs less heat and is more cheerful inside on miserable days.
- An outer tent that overhangs the inner is great on soggy days (inner not getting wet when getting in & out, also able to leave the vestibule open and gaze out cuppa in hand during a downpour).
- Our current 2 person bushwalking tent is the Sierra Leone, the next one will be much lighter, possibly a Scarp 2.
- The vestibules of the Venus III are large enuf to sit in with a 'low to the ground' camp chair.
- Windows in the vestibule are nice.
- There seems to be a tendency for people lookign for lighter tents.
- Whenever you buy a tent you'll sooner or later find another that seems even better (grass greener & fence type thingie).
- All the tents on you list are good, just different to suit different tastes & applications.

Happy tent hunting!

a.

[tasadam]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and need some advice. I'm a landscape photographer and I'm looking for a tent to travel in on photo trips. I'd like to use it all year round here in South Australia, so mostly warm dry weather (however this may change one day). We won't need to walk far with the tent so weight is not the most important issue (this may also change one day too). I've been looking around and become more and more confused but managed to narrow it down to a few that I like:

Going back to your original post, I can raise a few questions that may help you with your decision making.

You're looking for a tent to travel in on photo trips. How do you travel? Walking? Or some other means? How much camera gear do you carry in addition to the equipment you carry on walks? How fit are you, and how much do you enjoy heavy loads? And how much room do you have in your pack?
You say "We won't need to walk far...", who / how many people is "We"? And is the number of people that use this tent at any one time likely to change?

Are you likely to consider using the tent, say, just as a fly? Or even, being that you are somewhere that you might be able to rely on the weather a tad more than here in Tassie, consider just using the inner as an insect barrier?

What duration of trips are you likely to take - overnighters, or extended expeditions? And is that likely to change?
Is there enough room in the tent you are considering for you to be comfortable in, for your desired use?

Regarding warm vs cold tents, I would have thought all tents used in Australia would be "warm" tents, that is, an inner and an outer, unlike say the Bibler Tempest, a single wall tent, suited to high altitude areas etc, where the air remains below zero, so that condensation is not an issue (single wall tents in our climate equals a problem with condensation).

Hope that helps.

[juju]

I have had a Nallo 2. It's a great roomy 2 person tent for hiking. It has a tail lift and air vent in the top of the front of the fly that works just as intended and encourages great air flow, though I haven't used it in extreme heat. I have the mesh inner which is stand alone also. It's so easy to put up and minimal pegs in light wind. Medium weight at about 2k. It can be erected fly first - (which of course also means fly last when packing up in the rain) which I think is essential.
But If you're mostly going by car I'd go for something spacious. I have a car tent/s and a hiking tent/s. the Venus 2 looks great - if it has cross ventilation.

[tasadam]

I recently bought a Nallo3, to go with my Nallo2's.
Needed it due to the extra person that walks with us now... (long story).
It took me a lot of research and a leap of faith to finally commit to a new tent from the old Snowcave, and I am very happy with it.

[johnw]

...if you only need a small (cosy)2 man then the 2nd Arrow would be a good choice and lighter but is not 4 season.

norts, I own a 2nd Arrow. Definitely 4 season ("five season" if you believe WE's propaganda ).
It's essentially a scaled down version of the First Arrow with one less pole.

http://www.wildequipment.com.au/tent_detail.php?Code=WE2AUL
"high-tech, compact, 2-person, double-skinned expedition tent for ultra-lightweight travel in snow, across exposed country and in severe weather"

At 2.57kg packed I don't agree with the ultra-lightweight claim but I have found it to be tough and versatile.

[norts]

Sorry I did speak out of turn. I havent seen a 2nd in extreme conditions like I have the 1st. I think in conditions in the photo above of my 1st the 2nd might start to sag in the middle.
Still both good designed tents.
Roger

[eggs]

I agree with johnw
I have used a WE 2nd Arrow and it looks and feels pretty bomb proof. [Though really too small for 2]
However - I haven't ever camped in heavy snow.

None-the-less - for a larger tent in SA camping conditions - I reckon the MSR Hubba series are pretty good.
My Flinders / Heysen Trail trips over the last 3 years have all used a Hubba Hubba - sometimes rigged for Outer only use in warmer conditions.
See http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4225&p=48078&hilit=Hubba+Hubba+as+a+shell#p48078

[pjtn]

Thanks again everyone, all the replies have been very helpful.

I realise now that I never mentioned there will be two of us, me and my fiancee. Our trips are likely to extend for 1 to 2 weeks, maybe 3 sometimes. At the moment we'll probably be able to drive to the places we will camp. At some stage we will possibly want to carry the tent a little further. We're both fairly fit.

I've only put a little thought into using the fly and groundsheet only, but that completely depends on mosquitos. Using just the inner like a mosquito dome is probably more likely.

I've been looking at 3 person tents, but there are so many 2 person tents on the market in comparison. Do I really need a three person tent or are the 2 person models plenty big enough? I'm 1.75m tall, 74kg and my fiancee is 1.59m and about 50kg.

[mattmacman]

I think the Exped Vela 2 would suit your needs, somewhat lightweight, decent space (will have to get comfy, at least its your fiancee and not a friend), the ventilation system is amazing, no other tent compares, well i guess you could take the fly of other tents but thats cheating!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BViEhVoNMDo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C2X2dmtYTI

[Dale]

. At the moment we'll probably be able to drive to the places we will camp. At some stage we will possibly want to carry the tent a little further. We're both fairly fit.

If you're not hiking then why not go with a 'car camping' tent, particularly if you will be out for weeks at a time ? Get an awning, take fold up chairs and the whole shebang - much more comfortable for extended periods. You might even be able to find a 'palace' that you can hike with for short distances.

Regarding warm vs cold tents, I would have thought all tents used in Australia would be "warm" tents, that is, an inner and an outer, unlike say the Bibler Tempest, a single wall tent, suited to high altitude areas etc, where the air remains below zero, so that condensation is not an issue (single wall tents in our climate equals a problem with condensation).

Almost all my hiking is with single wall shelters and I don't find condensation an issue. Sometimes I'll wipe the inside tent walls with a chux in the morning and that's about as complicated as it gets. For the OP - single wall shelters aren't a great choice for your first tent - just get something that works with the minimum of fuss

[Gusto]

I agree with idea that if your not hiking then don't buy a hiking tent. Car camping tents are bigger and often cheaper.

The tents that are Outer pitch first such as WE, Exped, HIlleberg are usually more comfortable in a wide range of climates than inner pitch first tents. Also your able to save weight and not carry the inner at all. The arrow tents from WE can be opened and closed for ventilation more so then the other tents.


One key difference between winter and summer tents is the inner tent fabric is often completely mesh on the summer models.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

I have a Mutha Hubba HP here in Adelaide, so I guess you could come and check it out for size if you want to see one. Having said that, you wouldn't want the HP version because it has much less mesh and won't be nearly as good in hot weather.

I think, from memory, the Scout Outdoor Centre in Rundle St has a regular Mutha Hubba (with lots of mesh) so you could check that out. They also have the Mont Moondance III, and they do hire them out. Perhaps you could hire one or two and try them out for your exact application.

I'd personally go for a three person, but that's just me. The Hubba series do feel roomy because of the near vertical walls.

[tasadam]

Speaking of 3 person, the Nallo3 is only 300 grams heavier than the Nallo2, and loads of room.
My Snowcave lasted me 20 years or thereabouts, so if you get the tent you ultimately want, you don't have to buy a second one later on. Not that it stops the typical member of this forum - many self confessed gear freaks here.

[Nuts]

Nallo 4?

The new model Hilleberg tents would sound like a good compromise for the OP, warmer weather or mostly mainland use.
I had a 6 man sportiva dome tent for motorbike touring, we lived in it for months.. heavy thing but sooo much nicer than crawling into a small bushwalking tent.

It might be worth just buying one of the cheaper bushwalking options (DMH, Eureka) until deciding pjtn? It can take a few high end tents to find 'the perfect one'..
We used DMH tunnel tents for a few years in tassie, Inner pitch first, tedious clip system, cheap as chips but not the end of the world.

[eggs]

If the main purpose is car camping and you want room, then I agree that a cheaper, heavier tent would be the go.
In the progression to dearer, lighter kit, I have gone through a stage with 3 man 4.5kg Caribee dome tent.
This one is quite roomy and has been used hiking away from the car in Wilpena Pound - as in the photo.

Camped at Cooinda in Wilpena Pound

And in Tasmania at Lake Myrtle, in the Tyndalls, on the Overland Track and in the Western Arthurs.
The only real test of it was camped at Lake Cygnus in the 'protected' platforms - where a very strong wind swirling from every direction was pushing the roof down onto my face as I tried to sleep, but the frame stood up to that kind of distortion very well. I also froze on the OT - but the whole ground froze that night and that was the event that led to buying a much warmer sleeping bag instead of the 5C rated thin ROMAN bag that I was using.

Caribee 4.5kg Dome with a much older steel pole(bomb proof) 5kg V tent at Lake Myrtle

[johnw]

Sorry I did speak out of turn. I havent seen a 2nd in extreme conditions like I have the 1st. I think in conditions in the photo above of my 1st the 2nd might start to sag in the middle.
Still both good designed tents.
Roger

No worries Roger, yes both good tents and I've often envied the extra room in the First Arrow . The 2nd Arrow does shed snow quite readily. I've only experienced light snowfall with it and that quickly ends up piled on the ground around the edges, nothing on top. Only two poles but it seems to remain very taut in the centre (properly pitched). I think it would probably perform similarly in heavy snow but I haven't tested that theory. The design has some carefully calculated lengths and angles I believe. Probably right on the upper limits of what performance they can achieve before things go awry.

[mattmacman]

I agree that it takes ages to really find the tent for you, just buy a cheapie for the moment.

[pjtn]

Thank you everyone for all the great help.

I've decided to get the Exped Venus III. We had started leaning towards this tent and Bivouac.co.nz just put them on sale today for $486. This is so ridiculously cheap it's almost impossible not to pick one up

I think it will be a good compromise. Although it's kinda heavy I think we'll still be able to walk with it if we want to, while still having the comfort of a larger tent. I also like that the Exped tents are supposed to have very thick floors, although I can't find a denier rating anywhere.

I also purchased the Exped SIM light 3.8 LW sleeping matts for only $80 each. It's hard to ignore sales like these, even if the matts are a little bigger than I would have ordered otherwise.