Tiger Snakes at Echo Point?

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Hi there.

Last time I walked the Overland track, just as we went to set up our tent on the beach at Echo Point, this guy comes out of the hut and says about 10mins ago he saw a tiger snake right where we were about to set up camp. We decided to move up into one of the camping spots in the forest behind the hut. Later that night, he said that he has frequented Echo Point in summer - several times a year for many years - and ALWAYS sees a few tiger snakes on the beach there without fail.

Has anyone else noticed this? I doubted very much that there was some sort of super concetration of snakes in that particular area and put it down to an old wives tale, or a local having a laugh at our expense. Having said that, I absolutely hate snakes!

Anyone else seen tiger snakes on the beach at Echo Point Hut? Or other areas on the Overland Track they tend to always see them in the same place?

I saw one by the toilets at Narcissus in 2009, and three in about 50m on the duckboard that sidles around Mt Mullen on the way to Frenchman's.

[tasadam]

It's not uncommon to see them on any walk in Tassie, depending on the time of year.
We saw 7 snakes in one weekend up at the Walls.
Then, on an 8 day walk the only one we saw was this one...

But, he was kind of making up for it with his size.

I doubt a heavy concentration in a small area, say, the size of a campsite. But "a few" over any one day is not really a heavy concentration.
Just give them a wide berth.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Hi Adam.

I doubt a heavy concentration in a small area, say, the size of a campsite. But "a few" over any one day is not really a heavy concentration.
Just give them a wide berth.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I just don't see it logical that there would be some sort of super concentration of tigers in one small area. The only reason that might happen I guess is because of the supposed rat problem at Echo Point (would be good feeding for snakes), but when I was there we didn't hear/see any rats - and the Cynthia Bay ranger said the problem had been pretty much eradicated.

I do expect to see them when I walk in Tas, and I don't have a massive phobia... I just really don't like them! The three in the space of 50m up around Mt Mullen (including one monster) was almost enough for me turn around right there!

Nice photo link - I hope you took that with some kick *ss zoom from a LONG way back?

[pazzar]

He's only a baby Adam! The first time I ever encountered a snake was on my first overnight trip to the Walls, an easy 3m length, big for a tiger snake. I wouldn't think they would cause too much trouble around a hut, especially Echo Point. Just make lots of noise and you'll be right. They wont bother you when you are zipped up in your tent, unless you are cooking one of the resident rats!, and they aren't likely to be foraging around in the dark.

[tasadam]

Nice photo link - I hope you took that with some kick *ss zoom from a LONG way back?

I was about 4 paces from him when I first saw him, I swore quite loudly and went into instant reverse for 3 large paces, took one hurried photo (F4 hence the slightly blurry head) then some more backward paces.
24-70mm lens. Don't like these bigger ones that close.

[pazzar]

Did you poke it with a stick?

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

I swore quite loudly

Me too! I stepped within inches of the first one around Mullen's. By the time I got to the third one, it seemed like some sort of challenge from Indiana Jones trying to retrieve the Holy Grail!

He's only a baby Adam! The first time I ever encountered a snake was on my first overnight trip to the Walls, an easy 3m length, big for a tiger snake.

That's not big for a tiger, that's unheard of! The wiki for tiger snakes says Tasmanian variety grow up to 1.5 m (5 feet), which was at least the size of the biggest one I ran in to (I'd guessed 5-6 feet) here http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=6021&p=79338&hilit=frenchman%27s+cap+trip+report#p79338

3m (9 feet) sounds impossible (and I will NEVER visit the Walls if in fact this is correct).

[tasadam]

That's not big for a tiger, that's unheard of!

Tas Parks site - http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/index.aspx?base=4750

Tiger snakes have 13 - 19 rows of scales around the middle of the body, the usual number being 17. On the mainland of Tasmania, tiger snakes reach a length of 1 to 1.8 m. The Chappell Island population reaches prodigious lengths -- up to 2.1 m. Male tiger snakes reach a greater size than females and have larger heads.

The ones I see at the Walls have been around 1 metre. I've seen a video of one taking a frog somewhere up there, it was bigger than 1 mere. Just did a search and found the link, http://ourhikingblog.com.au/2007/11/tig ... mania.html

[corvus]

Tigers not moving about in the dark!! since when ? about 35 years ago whilst fishing at Lake No Where Else ( also known as "Snake Gully" ) I was collecting frogs as bait by torchlight and as I was about to grab a frog a Tiger beat me to from the waters edge,funny thing I have never gone back there to fish night or day
corvus

[corvus]

Snakes collecting in one area at Kia Ora where the old Toilet used to be and before the Guided Trip Hut Platforms were there Tigers used to gather in the sunny hollow of the old Toilet site at least three or four ,no food just nice sunshine
corvus

[corvus]

As an aside how many Snake Bites have we experienced in Tasmania in the last 5 years and how many have been envenomated causing death ?
corvus

[frank_in_oz]

That's not big for a tiger, that's unheard of!

Tas Parks site - http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/index.aspx?base=4750

Tiger snakes have 13 - 19 rows of scales around the middle of the body, the usual number being 17. On the mainland of Tasmania, tiger snakes reach a length of 1 to 1.8 m. The Chappell Island population reaches prodigious lengths -- up to 2.1 m. Male tiger snakes reach a greater size than females and have larger heads.

The ones I see at the Walls have been around 1 metre. I've seen a video of one taking a frog somewhere up there, it was bigger than 1 mere. Just did a search and found the link, http://ourhikingblog.com.au/2007/11/tig ... mania.html

Thanks Adam,
The video had died. I have now updated it via You Tube so your link to our site (and the video) now work!

[taswegian]

Many years ago we (wife and 4 young kids ) camped at L St Clair and I can defenitely say I have never seen (and heard) so many snakes.
Wife was far from impressed, most uneasy being there with the kids.
It was weird as you would walk along the track and if you didn't see them you could hear the blighters slithering about in the scrub.
They were literally everywhere.

I haven't encontered such an experience with the black beauties since.

[Phil]

There's two living halfway along the Pine Valley Track at the moment; I had the pleasure of meeting them a few weeks ago. They were both literally on the track having a sun-bake.

[ossie]

In 7 days walking in March this year, I only saw 2 and both on the same day. But it was the first warm and sunny day for many days so thought they would be out and about. Both were between Windermere and Pelion. Nearly stepped on one! But he kept going down the path and into the grass. Spoke to other walkers at Pelion Hut that afternoon, including people who had come in on the Arm River track, and almost everybody has seen snakes that day. As I said, first warm and sunny day for many days, so they were bound to be out.

[Overlandman]

I had to reply to this one, Sounds like the guy in the hut had lost his majestic view of Lake St Clair, quickest way to get you to move your tent was the old Tiger Snake story.
The family of Tigers are still at the old toilet at Kiora, when there was less vegetation, you could go and stand in amongst them, they would disappear and return minutes later, you did however have to watch out for the jack jumper ants.
I have been a Herpetologist for 32 years, spending a total of 12 weeks on Mt Chapell Island during the early 90's. The largest Tiger I caught was 2.1 metres in an area called the land of the giants. We had 1500 Tigers tagged & estimated the adult population to be 3000 on 800 acres.
Interesting to note the last woman to die from snake bite in Tasmania was in 1948 south of Pelion Hut on the Overland track.
The average size of the high country tiger is 1 metre as its staple diet is skinks. I have caught one almost 4ft at the cabins at Cradle Valley, plenty of mice & rats
I will be on the Overland track on the 19th November for a week, I walk by myself, and see a lot more reptiles that way.
Overlandman

[Overlandman]

As an aside how many Snake Bites have we experienced in Tasmania in the last 5 years and how many have been envenomated causing death ?
corvus

collige virgo rosas

Corvus,
The last woman to die from Snake Bite was on the Overland track, South of Pelion hut in 1948
The last male to die was a snake showman at the Brighton Show near Hobart in 1971.
Both were Tiger Snake bites,
no one has died from a Copperhead or Whitelipped Whip Snake bite (the other two Tasmanian snakes)
Overlandman

[corvus]

The family of Tigers are still at the old toilet at Kiora, when there was less vegetation, you could go and stand in amongst them, they would disappear and return minutes later, you did however have to watch out for the jack jumper ants.
Overlandman

The old Toilet at Kia Ora is no longer there nor is the nice hollow where the snakes gathered after it was removed( the Commercial group platforms are there now ) the Tigers may have moved to the mouse food source at the new Toilets
corvus
[ quote Nuts]
Nar, toilets still there ol mate (not sure why), complete with resident snake family..[quote]
I stand corrected but honestly cannot remember seeing it senility must be creeping in
corvus

[ILUVSWTAS]

He's only a baby Adam! The first time I ever encountered a snake was on my first overnight trip to the Walls, an easy 3m length,

WOW!! Did you get any photos? Im pretty sure the largest on record is under 2.5m, the authorities would love to see this monster serpent of yours Jared!!

[Nuts]

The family of Tigers are still at the old toilet at Kiora, when there was less vegetation, you could go and stand in amongst them, they would disappear and return minutes later, you did however have to watch out for the jack jumper ants.
Overlandman

The old Toilet at Kia Ora is no longer there nor is the nice hollow where the snakes gathered after it was removed( the Commercial group platforms are there now ) the Tigers may have moved to the mouse food source at the new Toilets
corvus

Nar, toilets still there ol mate (not sure why), complete with resident snake family..

Biggest one ive seen was a striking gold colour, stretched out (and not moving) on the arm river near Lk Price.
Would have taken a stretch (of snake & imagination) to be 3m, 2 easy enough (i'd guess).

[tasadam]

We had 1500 Tigers tagged & estimated the adult population to be 3000 on 800 acres.

So you caught and handled 1500 tiger snakes? Stuff that.... (quivers)

The last woman to die from Snake Bite was on the Overland track, South of Pelion hut in 1948
The last male to die was a snake showman at the Brighton Show near Hobart in 1971.

Not quite right.
An article worth reading -
http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/We ... 2F4SG?open
Some of it, just to air the facts -

Snakes are naturally shy animals and their first form of defence is to move away from danger. Contrary to popular belief, they will not deliberately chase humans, but if provoked or cornered they may bluff or even attempt to bite. Most people who have been bitten were attempting to kill or handle a snake or have trodden on it - an attack from the snakes' point of view. Although several people are bitten each year the last person proven to be killed by a snake in Tasmania was a handler in 1977 and the last killed in the bush was in 1966! The risks are very low. If you encounter a snake, the best thing to do is to let the snake go its own way.

The facts, complete with other interesting links, are in this topic.

I have heard the story of the 1966 bushwalker that was the victim of a fatal bite, it was somewhere down south, could have been south coast track.
It was a woman, and she had "gone bush - nature calls"... Apparently when she took a squat, she was bitten "down there somewhere", possibly her backside, but was too embarrassed to tell anyone because in those days, it was when people still sucked the poison out.
I don't know for sure whether this is factual or urban legend, but I heard it from a relatively reliable source and have no reason to doubt it, hence me quoting it here.

[corvus]

[Quote Nuts;]

Nar, toilets still there ol mate (not sure why), complete with resident snake family..
[Quote Nuts;]
Honestly cannot remember seeing the "old Kia Ora toilet" must have been blinded by the nice commercial group platforms ,distracted by the School Group using them or I am just a Senile old fart needing new specs
corvus

[Nuts]

It was easy to see from the old track, it threw me at first, the new track is 5m or so west of the old... the diff between spotting the dunny or not.... teenage girls blocking the view or no lol

[north-north-west]

He's only a baby Adam! The first time I ever encountered a snake was on my first overnight trip to the Walls, an easy 3m length, big for a tiger snake.

That's not big for a tiger, that's unheard of! The wiki for tiger snakes says Tasmanian variety grow up to 1.5 m (5 feet)...

From experience, I can assure you that nothing looks as big as a shark's mouth when you're staring past its huge pointy teeth, right down its throat. I suspect there's a similar phenomenon with snakes, for some people.

[Nuts]

I have heard the story of the 1966 bushwalker that was the victim of a fatal bite, it was somewhere down south, could have been south coast track.
It was a woman, and she had "gone bush - nature calls"... Apparently when she took a squat, she was bitten "down there somewhere", possibly her backside, but was too embarrassed to tell anyone because in those days, it was when people still sucked the poison out.

I heard this story from someone apparently in the area at the time, it may be mixed wires (with a later death?) but this ^ story is attributed to the death of Dorothy Townsend (?), part of a group from Sydney Uni who was bitten whilst on the Overland Track to the south of Pelion Hut. She died in the hut from the bite, iirc it was in the late 1940's (?)

[tasadam]

was bitten whilst on the Overland Track to the south of Pelion Hut. She died in the hut from the bite, iirc it was in the late 1940's (?)

Might be different, I remember the story as being down south, and it was referring to the 1966 death. But then, very unlucky to have two women die like that. Maybe someone knows.

[Nuts]

It is a tragic thought, to die rather than speak out... I'm guessing this would have been the outcome anyhow. I did a search but just came up with vague references to the incident I mentioned and the date you mention. The newspaper archives seem a bit thin on line (that I could find). It would be good to get the facts, it is a story I pass on to reassure people just how rare these events are, it also tends to encourge people to use the toilets at every opportunity : )

[stepbystep]

Not echo point but filmed this guy on the North/South track today.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=26 ... eo_comment

[tasadam]

... it also tends to encourge people to use the toilets at every opportunity : )

[taswegian]

... it also tends to encourge people to use the toilets at every opportunity

Don't snakes like toilets? I wouldn't discount one in that area. Always wary.

Re the lady and bitten by snake, I grew up in the 'knowledge' that it was in the reserve and she had not said anything as posted earlier.
I had that ingrained in me at an early age, but only knew of one such incident. Not thats much help i know in saying exactly where or when.