Rain jacket - what's worth having?

[nakedape]

Hi all,

Thinking I'll need a new jacket soon. So what's new & what's worth having?

Ta

[Strider]

Apart from the obvious, what will you be using it for?

[nakedape]

Tasmania's ugliest weather!

[wayno]

read up on jacket reviews, find out what has the best dwr and sheds water the best.
it doesnt matter how well the membrane breathes if the DWR doesnt work well or quickly wears off and the outside fo the fabric gets saturated then nothing will help the breathability of the jacket. i think having a smother snier fabric surface helps shed water, my experience is the fabrics with a more matt finish on the surface won't shed the water as long.
thicker fabric affects breathability detrimentally. but if you're going to bash through heavy bush dont skimp on fabric thickness...
i prefer having pit zips. again it doesnt matter how good the fabric claims it is, there are circumstances there you will get a buildup of sweat
I got a columbia peak 2 peak jacket using their proprietary omni dry membrane, sheds water like a duck.. it is polyester so won't stand up to bush bashing as well as a nylon jacket, i dont usually bush bash, but if I do i have an older heavier nylon jacket for that purpose.
polyester is more UV resistant than nylon.
gore tex is no longer king, there are more breathable membranes out there like event, omni dry, neoshell. but again it depends on other factors.
gore tex garments are usually a guarantee of a well made garment with a good guarantee.

[roysta]

On the subject of new fabrics, check out Mountain Hardware Dry Q Elite. You may find something ok there.
I have some 3 layer full zip overpants in that material and it's pretty good.

[wayno]

dry Q is the same as eVent
lots of reviews of gear on www.gearbuyer.com. although won't have the australasian brands

[roysta]

I have a Goretex 3 layer Pro Shell jacket that is out of this world but I don't think you can get them anymore.
Mountain Hardware Beryllium.
It was expensive but I find no reason to go to Dry Q or eVent.

[Miyata610]

Yes it's interesting how technology stampedes forward, but not always with noticeable improvements.

I used to use oiled japara rain jackets, then in about 1976 I bought my first gore-tex jacket (I still have it) it leaked at the seams but was a quantum leap forward. My current gore-tex jacket is only a few years old. It works. It doesn't leak. I can't imagine how it could be significantly improved.

[wayno]

some of the newer membranes allow air to move through them, they breathe better in windy conditions provided the face fabric hasnt been wetted out.
to a certain extent they can double as windshirts more effectively than older style membranes like gore tex that doesnt allow ar through the membrane.
I"ve used my columbia peak to peak as a wind shirt , it worked well. no sweat buildup on the inside of the shell.

[nakedape]

I fear buying an expensive jacket & finding that it begins wetting out in 2-3 year time, then finding out that the fabric doesn't hold DWR at all well (thankyou Mont). I'll spend the coin if the jacket works as intended (and is replaced without question if it doesn't (thankyou Mont)) - but I'm wandering if I shouldn't buy something a little cheaper & accept that I'll tear it in 2-3 years & that it may not breathe as good.

As an aside - breathable garments often reach peak performance in dry, snowy conditions, i.e. not Australia, so we'll never get maximum benefit anyway!

N

[wayno]

people think it's the cold that improves performance, it's not
it's the low humidity that allows moisture to transfer through the membrane faster, and at low temps you don't sweat as much if at all so theres less moisture to shift.
some peole think their garments have started leaking when thats not necessarily the case, either the outside humidity is too high, the face fabric is wet, the jacket doenst have enough ventilation like pit zips or vented pockets. or they are sweating too much for the garment to handle and it's pure sweat buildup inside...

[phan_TOM]

As an aside - breathable garments often reach peak performance in dry, snowy conditions, i.e. not Australia, so we'll never get maximum benefit anyway!

Good point, we're exposed to so many blogs, trip reports and gear reviews from the snow and the mountains etc that its easy to end up lusting after gear thats unsuitable for our needs. I live in the subtropics where its warm and very wet (take, for example, the last 18 months...) but I also like to stay dry when I go for a walk. If I wear my Gore-tex Helly Hansen jacket with the pit & chest zips open I still get soaked because I'm sweating my backside off, its great when I go somewhere cold though.

...people think it's the cold that improves performance, it's not it's the low humidity that allows moisture to transfer through the membrane faster...

And as we all remember from paying close attention at school cold air cannot hold as much h2o as warm air eg at 0°C dew point (100% humidity) is reached when there is approx 5g of h2o per 1kg of air and at around 40°C it becomes approx 50g of h2o per 1kg of air. The moisture moves through the membrane because of the gradient or difference in pressure, from a higher humidity to a lower humidity, a similar process that causes wind when air moves from an area of high pressure to an area of low pressure. so in a way you could say that it is the cold air that improves performance because of the relationship between temperature and humidity.

[nakedape]

As I originally alluded to: many high end jackets are made for alpine conditions not usually experienced here in Aus (less so in Tas). We tend to face wet conditions & warmer temps (by comparison). So it begs the question: are we being conned into buying gear that is unsuitable?

Anywho. I've been thinking about these (below). Some are very pricey & I'd probably be better off with Arctryx. Some are reasonably priced & would do the task for a while. Any one using any of these?

http://www.mountaindesigns.com/online-s ... odID=13848

http://www.mountaindesigns.com/online-s ... odID=14748

http://www.hellyhansen.com.au/products/detail/66522/156

[slparker]

Yeah nakedape, I bought a Mountain Hardwear Gore paclite jacket similar to your second link at a sale a couple of years ago... it's the best jacket i have used. It's light, scrunches up very small and the most breathable of any jacket I've used. It has pit zips etc, which no doubt helps the breathability. I've used it cycling and x-country skiing where I've seen the limits of its breathability.

some caveats: it's hip length, which suits me for its main uses although the material is ripstop it's quite lightweight, so I'm not convinced of its long term durability. I reckon a lot of pack walking may abrade the shoulders.

[bailz66]

I just recently purchased a Montane Superfly Jacket

So far I am really impressed and heading to tasmania this week to do the Overland

If all goes well I will come back and report the results

Cheers

[sthughes]

As I originally alluded to: many high end jackets are made for alpine conditions not usually experienced here in Aus (less so in Tas). We tend to face wet conditions & warmer temps (by comparison). So it begs the question: are we being conned into buying gear that is unsuitable?

Anywho. I've been thinking about these (below). Some are very pricey & I'd probably be better off with Arctryx. Some are reasonably priced & would do the task for a while. Any one using any of these?

http://www.mountaindesigns.com/online-s ... odID=13848

http://www.mountaindesigns.com/online-s ... odID=14748

http://www.hellyhansen.com.au/products/detail/66522/156

MD's have the Nimbus (or something very similar with Pro Shell etc) for $299.95 in store at the moment, I was a little cheesed as I just got a new Gore Tex Active Shell "Ampatu" (I think) jacket from Kathmandu. Mine is basically a competitor to the MD Flash but lighter (265g for large), more "breathable" and a bit less protection about the neck. I'm yet to use it but looks good so far.

As far as all these "breathable" membranes go, when I'm walking up a steep hill I will get wet with sweat even without a jacket, so no jacket will ever eliminate that. Just be nice to dry out a bit afterwards if possible.

[wayno]

if you're goign to use your jacket a lot with a pack on and want durability, get a 3 layer jacket, the nylon tricot inner layer is there to reduce abrasion against the membrane.
with proshell the third layer is finer and closer in to the membrane so it doesnt look like other 3 layer jackets..
2 layer membranes generally wear out quicker especially with a pack on. 2.5 are a bit better with an extra layer printed over the membrane to reduce friction on the membrane itself.

[nakedape]

MD's have the Nimbus (or something very similar with Pro Shell etc) for $299.95 in store at the moment, I was a little cheesed...

I reckon I tried that on the other day. Nice enough jacket. BUT, its a unisex cut (read fashion jacket) so its a bit slim - alright with only T-shirt, but once you get a fleece etc it gets tight. The collar is also tight (i.e. I couldn't zip it all the way up). That was the XL & they don't make a 2XL (I'm not actually that big but...). It also had that stupid double ended zip that annoys the absolute $%^& out of me - they're fine on long jackets but do not need to be on every *&%$#! garment

[sthughes]

I didn't try it on so nice to know it ain't that fantastic!

I have XXL MD rain pants, usually where a L!

[johnw]

I bought a MD Deluge Gore-Tex jacket last week and now having second thoughts about breathability and general performance for bushwalking. It is a very basic design, mesh-lined and has no pit zips or other ventilation. Also bought MD Grampian rain pants and unsure about those either. Does anyone have experience or opinions with either of these?

http://www.mountaindesigns.com/online-store/products/Mens-Deluge-Jacket.aspx?prodID=14932

http://www.mountaindesigns.com/online-store/products/Mens-Grampian-Pant.aspx?prodID=1532

[nakedape]

Come on folks. You've all got a rain jacket in your kit - what is it? Does it work the way you expected? Is it durable? What do you do with it (and where)? Would you buy it again?

[wayno]

Come on folks. You've all got a rain jacket in your kit - what is it? Does it work the way you expected? Is it durable? What do you do with it (and where)? Would you buy it again?

thats not what you asked to start with.....

[Azza]

Gortex 3 Layer Pro Shell and then its really just personally preference and fit..

But also depends if your a track walker or off track scrub basher.
I like a waist length jacket.. others like the traditional knee length.
I think breath-ability is an overstated feature.. i.e. its never as good as your lead to believe by the manufacturers
and In reality the DWR water proofing only lasts a couple of days.
I think people carry on a lot about the technical features of a jacket.

I've seen people tear brand new gortex pro-shell jackets on their first outing.. Tassie scrub can be fierce..

All I can say is that my last few jackets have been MD's and I've been generally happy with them.
My old nimbus jacket had the fabric scuff up which was a be disconcerting.. seems to be an issue with the gortex pro-shell at the time. The fabric is quite different on the newer jackets.

[blacksheep]

did you see the specials section?

[Strider]

Come on folks. You've all got a rain jacket in your kit - what is it? Does it work the way you expected? Is it durable? What do you do with it (and where)? Would you buy it again?

Got a Macpac Traverse. Plan to use it for daywalks and open track multi-dayers, but haven't had enough rain to actually try it out yet!

[Nuts]

Iv'e been using a Rab Bergen event jacket, $170 odd from the UK. If it was a bit longer and slightly tougher face fabric it would be perfect! They seem to still be aiming at lightweight with eVent jackets, maybe some of the macpac offerings are more durable? Mine is washed after each walk and the dwr hasn't been a drama. Proshell seems similar to the old XCR? I did see some cheap OR mentor and MHW pro shell jackets on Sierra TP (at a similar (sale coupon) price) that may fit the budget???

[nakedape]

That's more like it - thanks to all so far.

I'm well aware of the pitfalls of going too cheap and conversely, of going too expensive (man I would be so mad if I staked a brand new $600 jacket) - I just want to know what being used, what's on offer (there's real paucity of choice in bricks & mortar retailers) & what's living up to expectations.

So keep them coming - I judge ye not

[nakedape]

did you see the specials section?

No - will seek it out.

Did you note my comment above re double ended zips? Something manufacturers may wish to consider.

[sthughes]

Just got back from the Western Arthurs with my Kathmandu AmpatuPatronus Gore-Tex Active Shell. I must say I am mega-impressed, much better than anything I have had beforehand such as Macpac Hollyford Event. It is very light however and I put a small hole in the cuff during a close encounter with some of the abrasive rocks up there. Also the face protection is poor so for cold weather not so good.

[forest]

Arc'teryx Theta SL for most stuff.
plenty durable and the weight is friendly @ 407g in large.
Bit of a hybrid jacket, 3L Goretex Proshell on the high wear area's and 2L paclite on the low wear zones. I haven't holed it yet which is suprising considering some of the stuff I've been through in it.
Pit zips are a plus and the cut comes to about the bottom of bum... good compromise for me.

Picked mine up from the US for about $250 posted.