Cost of hiking the track

[Nuts]

Going back to value for money (rather than the merits of various permit and hut models)..
I actually think the OP has a point. If someone pays to stumble across track that needs maintenance to find all left is a patch of ground... They haven't got much for their money.

It doesn't really matter if the state is broke, things have been mismanaged, composting toilets are considered too hard and the alternative sucks the $$'s.. Parks are not a charity..
We may have a model unique to Tasmania and thats great but hidden in the bush is a chance for pampered accommodation at a price. Unfortunately those $ don't go to the public purse even though the model exists and there is nothing in between that and a very distant second best struggling for funding.

[ybi2]

Dear ollster
I quote your last blog "good luck if you are stuck in a snap snow storm and/or get lost. You're as good as dead. Not taking ALL essential equipment is frankly, %$#@ing ludicrous.[/quote]

However, I take it you have never been on one the hikes in NZ nor have you done any inquires. Otherwise you would not have put that blog on.

The difference is as others have stated the huts are closer together. Secondly, there are park rangers at each hut with up to date weather information for the track ahead each morning before you set off. This, if you read previous blogs, has been stated numerous times before. Thirdly, the tracks are mostly covered and protected by bush most of the way and therefore you are protected. However the high areas are not. Between those huts that are exposed are quality emergency huts if you get stuck.

But if is is going to be to bad then the rangers will not let you go onto the next hut. They can close that part of the track down. In that case they stop hikers beginning the track until it is clear. A safeguard that you do not get for the money you pay on the Overland Track.

It is ludicrous, as you stated, that some do not take a tent whilst hiking the Overland Track. Both times that I hiked the track I saw a number of hikers not carrying tents. These were mainly teenagers. I do not know if the PWS can police it as it may be very hard but it should be a requirement that they are checked before setting off.

The reason that you have to carry a tent on the Overland Track is that the PWS sell tickets to hikers that they can not accommodate if the weather turns really bad in the smaller huts. I to, like another has said in this forum, have been on the Overland Track when the weather turned really bad. No one on the track knew it was about to turn nasty because there was no ranger to let hikers know. I took all the right precautions in getting up to date weather before I set off on the Overland Track but things change. However, you can not get up to date information at all huts during the hike. In the conditions that I have mentioned was no way that you could put up a tent (if you had one and some did not) and expect it to stay up. It was not just the rain but the very high wind as well. As a result there were people sleeping on the varandahs.

So it is not 'ludicrous' that you do not take a tent on the stated hikes in NZ. If you had completed the hikes or did some research or read some previous blogs you would have known that.

And there is no need for the term (%$#@ing) you used. This is an open forum. Keep it adult.

[frenchy_84]

So you would like to see even more huts built along the track so as to not get stuck out in bad weather and more friendly rangers (babysitters by the way you describe them) to man them for your 180 bucks...

[tastrax]

I think what this highlights is that they are two very different walking experiences - one is very tightly regulated and the other allows certain freedoms. I have enjoyed both but I would certainly not call them the same experience.

Out of curiosity, do any other states of Australia have fee paying, hut based, mattress, lights and toilet type experiences like NZ? I have generally only done day walks whilst touring around the mainland.

[Strider]

Both times that I hiked the track I saw a number of hikers not carrying tents.

How on earth can you tell someone is carrying a tent or not, unless you personally inspected inside everyone's packs?

[ollster]

So it is not 'ludicrous' that you do not take a tent on the stated hikes in NZ. If you had completed the hikes or did some research or read some previous blogs you would have known that.

And there is no need for the term (%$#@ing) you used. This is an open forum. Keep it adult.

We'll agree to disagree then, because I still think you're wrong. It's cute that the NZ rangers hold your hand for you, but it's still stupid to go out under equipped. Don't underestimate nature, bad luck, or the ability of people to do silly things. This applies to pretty much anywhere.

It's an open forum, and I'll state things with appropriate emphasis, thanks. I don't need literary advice from you.

[Nuts]

200bucks (+ a parks pass) frenchy, oct-may...

[Azza]

200bucks (+ a parks pass) frenchy, oct-may...

In comparison I've walked in Torres Del Paine... I think the park pass is $50, and its something like $40-50 dollars per night to stay in the refugio..
$70-80 if you want food included.
You can hire tents pre-setup at the campsites and they have gas powered hot showers and flush toilets - only because there is so much running water available.
Still costs $15 per night to pitch your own tent.
The facilities are pretty good but they need to be to cope with the huge number of people that go through there.
I will say if you get into trouble out there you are very much on your own.

But seriously - the cost is not something I think about.. I am there to enjoy the walk and not grizzle about money.
I really hate the blah blah is so much better than XYZ mentality... Just enjoy it for what it is.

[Nuts]

I agree, comparisons are difficult to make. Personally I wouldn't want public hostel type accommodation in our parks and think the way the system works has potential.

Point is though that the payment is for a service. In a hotel the guests wouldn't be expected to pay more just 'because'.. The reasons I mentioned earlier effect value for money and visitors have every right to ask what they are paying for.

It can't really be argued that we have a bare bones system that encourages independence with a small budget while hidden from view are well funded huts that perhaps exceed international wilderness accommodation standards.

For the same reason its hard to accept moaning about lack of funding while the most viable sources are farmed out..

[ILUVSWTAS]

Hey Nuts, I see you got the brag-tag happening now... Nice set of peaks there too!!

[Nuts]

ha ha, yes .. they are.. nothing too meaty though (yet)... I finally have my first summer (?) month off in 5yrs (wooooohoooo)
(just lending support to the icons of peakbaggin to keep posting theirs..)

[ILUVSWTAS]

ha ha, yes .. they are.. nothing too meaty though (yet)... I finally have my first summer (?) month off in 5yrs (wooooohoooo)
(just lending support to the icons of peakbaggin to keep posting theirs..)

Awww your sweet.

Too many vultures out for blood on here im afraid.... Besides, it makes "the game" more interesting

[ollster]

Too many vultures out for blood on here im afraid....

They jus' jelly, ILUV. No rangers to hold their hand on the walk up.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Too many vultures out for blood on here im afraid....

They jus' jelly, ILUV. No rangers to hold their hand on the walk up.

And unable to pitch a tent in strong wind...

[forest]

It's cute that the NZ rangers hold your hand for you

That's a degrading comment.
From the way I take that comment your "looking down" on people who do great walks in NZ ?? as they have better facilities, ie are softer ??.
If a weather prediction is available each day why not read it, Maybe next time I'll skip the info just to be "tough"
Have you ever walked any of these tracks in NZ ??

The rangers are helpful and informative. They certainly don't hold your hand and even if the track is "closed" cannot stop you from walking on it as it's a public area. (had a very informative/enlightening discussion with the Lake Mackenzie warden about NZ's liability regarding anyone that uses the NP's)
I think due to the increase in "great walk" facilities in NZ and the more stringent hut ticket system they need a warden/ranger to run/maintain things.
Obviously different funding will dictate what facilities are available.

This thread started as a cost based issue with the OLT.
I have no issue with the OLT system, it's just a very publicly know Tassie trail and well promoted.
People that walk in multiple countries on "great walks" and reasonable money is exchanged are going to expect a certain experience for there fee paid. (we are talking un-guided here, self sufficent..well if you call it self sufficent in huts)

If getting into spectacular country means hitting the OLT, Milford or any other trail/off track so be it. I'll go.
If it's a track with good services and the fee is fair even better (But I'll do my best to avoid the crowd's)

I would have no idea of great walk numbers but I'm guessing that NZ numbers are much more that OLT numbers. (they have more "great walks" to start with)
Certainly there are more DOC's staff in general in NZ.
More people, different systems running the track = two different experiences. Both spectacular area's

[ollster]

It's cute that the NZ rangers hold your hand for you

That's a degrading comment.
From the way I take that comment your "looking down" on people who do great walks in NZ ??

Yes it was and quite deliberately, but no, it was specifically aimed at people who think going out unprepared is fine.

I am still looking forward to going to NZ, but I won't be doing so without proper equipment.

[Ent]

Hi

Each place it's own charms and way of doing things. As long as people coming to the OLT walks understand what is not provided no issue but I have seen more than a few caught out.

I do remember with fondness when under social obligation requirement Forestry and other semi government organizations provided infrastructure. Also when private individuals or groups did things before Parks become power crazed about knowing best.

My issue is Parks with the OLT forced more than a few Tassie people off the track until winter. For a person traveling the cost of the walk is rather a small component of other things. As for value for money, well cost can depend on management. Parks at Cradle spent a fortune on a visitor centre and now appear to have abandoned it.

I do get the feeling with Parks no amount of money you put their way will be enough.

You see massive infrastructure works then no maintenance. Parks is a rather poor asset manager. Also every extension or new National Park does not appear to come with additional long term funds. It is a mess and one that Parks has a challenge to get revenue in and then justify this.

My two cents worth.

[north-north-west]

Much as I love New Zealand, I hate their style of 'Great Walks' with the massive emphasis on on huts and facilities. I wouldn't want to walk that way - too many people, too much like being at home and going for a short daywalk.

There's also a completely different mindset. In New Zealand, it seems to be more about making things as pleasant as possible for the walkers. The set-up is, essentially, more to benefit walkers than anything else. In Tassie - especially on the Overland - the huts and other facilities (including platforms and dunnies in places like the WArthurs) are there to protect the environment from the impact of so many visitors. The fact that the huts make the OT a bit more comfortable for many is a side-effect.

[JamesMc]

The difference between the provision of walking facilities between Tas and NZ stems from a difference in perspective on the part of Government. In NZ they have over 1000 huts for walkers to use. They charge for most of them, and apparently they make a profit.

To support this business, they encourage walking. None of this keeping off track routes secret like in Tas. They put bridges over rivers to allow access to wilderness, in contrast to Tas parks destroying the Gordon River Flying Fox.

They dont believe the ' you must carry a tent just case, nonsense, partly because their worst weather is so much worse than Tasmania's worst weather, meaning that trying to camp can just be a way to destroy a tent.

One thing they do is encourage wealthy foreigners to do specific designated ' Great Walks', for which they provide super facilities and charge a lot. For some of these walks, eg Routeburn, camping is prohibited within 500m of the track. This means the locals ( who are often no richer than the average Tasmanian) either pay big $ or walk elsewhere. Or pay normal hut prices off season.

The Overland Track, is Tasmania's attempt at making an NZ style Great Walk. It doesn't quite succeed because you can't book a bed and end up having to carry a tent.

If you can't afford the OT, then do what the New Zealanders do - go off season or go somewhere else.

JamesMc

[north-north-west]

The Overland Track, is Tasmania's attempt at making an NZ style Great Walk. It doesn't quite succeed because you can't book a bed and end up having to carry a tent.

Except the Overland's been around a little longer, I would have thought . . .

[JamesMc]

History of the Milford Track goes back to about 1888 ( disregarding the use of the route by Maoris). Overland Track was blazed in 1931.

JamesMc

[north-north-west]

Yes, but surely it wasn't a 'Great Walk' back then. Hostels and gas stoves and mattresses and all.

It's a stupid argument, anyway. Two different countries, different ideas on walking, different types of walks for different kinds of people. I wouldn't pay the fees charged by either, but for different reasons (apart from being a tightarse).

[Ent]

Um?

What get lost in Tassie by Parks is there is stuff all (if any) beginner level overnight walks. In fact the main one into Lees paddocks only exists due to the generosity of a family continuing on a tradition of huts are for the benefit and safety of all. It is great that NZ at least considers such walkers. For hard nose long time walkers that do not have families or seek to encourage others to walk then Park's attitude may seem to be a blessing.

The original post was on the value for money rather than one approach is better than the other. NZ seem to provide value for money while Tas Parks just are a cash strapped money grabbing operation by comparison with a love of grand interpretive centres.

Anyone noticed that Parks have extended the paying season for the OLT next year thus further disadvantaging Tasmanian families?

Regards

[corvus]

Um?

What get lost in Tassie by Parks is there is stuff all (if any) beginner level overnight walks. In fact the main one into Lees paddocks only exists due to the generosity of a family continuing on a tradition of huts are for the benefit and safety of all. It is great that NZ at least considers such walkers. For hard nose long time walkers that do not have families or seek to encourage others to walk then Park's attitude may seem to be a blessing.

The original post was on the value for money rather than one approach is better than the other. NZ seem to provide value for money while comparison with a love of grand interpretive centres. Tas Parks just are a cash strapped money grabbing operation by

Anyone noticed that Parks have extended the paying season for the OLT next year thus further disadvantaging Tasmanian families?

Regards

Ent ,
There are many beginner level overnight walks you will just have to do some research rather than just go on a Parks Bashing exercise and please get over what has been already built be it the Bert hut or any other structure you think is inappropriate.
You say" Tas Parks just are a cash strapped money grabbing operation" who owns Parks ?? yes we do or should I say you as a Tax Payer are one of many who do so some of whom never use them ,as a bean counter how would you fund what Parks do other than impose charges for service rendered??
Just spent a really nice couple of days in the Cradle Managed Park at Oakleigh View Hut , Arm River track was well maintained ,Hut and Toilets were clean and the Resident Ranger was informative helpful and nice to talk to all help paid for I guess with OLT Fees.
What more are you looking for ??
corvus

[JamesMc]

Beginner overnight walks in Tasmania...

Mt Field
Maria Island
Eastern Tiers
Tasman Peninsula
Walls Of Jerusalem
South Cape Rivulet
Freycinet.

I'm sure someone who actually lives in Tasmania could suggest many more.

JamesMc

[Ent]

Beginner overnight walks in Tasmania...

Mt Field
Maria Island
Eastern Tiers
Tasman Peninsula
Walls Of Jerusalem
South Cape Rivulet
Freycinet.

I'm sure someone who actually lives in Tasmania could suggest many more.

JamesMc

Lets see.

Mt Field - no overnight huts or at least according to Parks on our last walk. They appear to be happy to not encourage the use of the huts. Three phone calls to Parks supports my opinion.
Maria Island - never been there but what was the cost of the ferry again? Oh yes taking a bicycle across is rather dear.
Eastern Tiers - never been there.
Tasman Peninsula - never been there.
Walls Of Jerusalem - no huts except Dixon Kingdom with Parks not encouraging its use. Ok yes huts at Meston and Junction (built not by Parks and now been hobbled by their new rules as is Junction Lake) All huts very small and not places you can take people to and expect to find space.
South Cape Rivulet - Never been there.
Freycinet - Cook hut was pretty well boarded up last time I was there.

Unless the places that I have never been to have huts I would suggest that maybe James you have a different view on what equipment people starting out need. I for one would not like to try children out on the haul up to Dixon Kingdom as their first overnight walk. Also more than a few people have suffered hypothermia in the alpine climate.

Lets see what I consider acceptable starting out walks.

Scout Lodge at Cradle - Um? Not Parks
Lees Paddocks - as mentioned not Parks.
Lady Lake - after a long battle the locals finally got a chance to rebuild it.'

So where is Parks??????????????

Now as a Tasmanian, born and bred I know the history behind Scott-Kilvert and I wish more would when suggesting alpine walks for beginners As you say local knowledge counts

So I rest my case

Regards

[Son of a Beach]

I think I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think beginners need huts. I reckon they just need relatively easy tracks and destinations that are not too far to walk to. That's certainly how I started out at the Walls of Jerusalem not going anywhere near the Dixons Kingdom Hut. My kids are now walking to Lees Paddocks at age 4 and don't even know there's a hut there. I wouldn't hesitate to take them to a place where there was not hut anywhere nearby.

Maybe there's a common factor though - I started out walking with someone a bit (tiny bit) experienced. My kids are walking with somebody reasonably experienced. I'm not sure how absolute beginners go if they're walking in a group full of absolute beginners, but people should work their way up gradually in difficulty level anyhow.

Hmmm... I think I'm digressing a bit.

On another note, and more directed at other people...

Please keep comments polite and friendly. Some of the discussion earlier in this topic was tending towards attacking people rather than discussing issues.

[stepbystep]

So I rest my case

Brett your "case" seems to go under the proviso there is a hut at any given location in order for it to be an easy overnight bushwalk. An overnight bushwalk in my books means the family sleeps in a tent!

Otherwise the family may as well do daywalks and sty at their local Best Western.....

[Ent]

Hi

My observation is Parks does day walks well and then there is a sizable gap up to the next level if you exclude non Parks' infrastructure. It is worthwhile pointing out that non Parks infrastructure (or built before Parks' control) caters for the beginning of the overnight experience but none I can think of specifically built by Parks.

Sadly in such debates it is assumed that people like me want all walks to be this way. All I want is a steady training level walks so people can grow their experience. The amount of money that get spent on over the top gear must be significant unless people continue to the "harder" walks. The other side of the coin is people getting into difficultly then been ridiculed or questioned why they wound up in this or that situation.

Parks appears to me to have no integrated strategy. Let's take Freyicent for example. The weather is not too extreme and if lost you are within a limited area. You have massive infrastructure now put in on the track, even with one way traffic! But no overnight to walk to places with family friendly infrastructure. If it rains like mad at Cooks Beach people have no shelter to cook in or dry out unless you "break" into the old hut. In summer you can not rely on water. There is no place outside non Parks Hut that you can be guaranteed a bed. Scout Hut is a great example of a training ground for kids. NZ equivalent to Parks seem to understand families our Parks does not.

I do grow tired of people wanting everyone to do as they do. I fully support helping out newbies and greatly enjoy walks with new people and kids. You get to see familiar places with new eyes. But not everyone has the social network to draw upon.

I am immensely grateful for this site enabling the formation of a group of walkers. As we have learnt the ropes and the limits of our abilities we have tackled more challenging areas and situations. Also I have had the advantage of drawing on the older hands knowledge to see placed safely that I did not know about. Never once have I felt the need to call in rescue services for our group. Is this not the right way? Our group still enjoys the gentle strolls and uses such walks to test new gear or have a slap up camping experience. For some every walk has be a test of their abilities, ok so go for that, but do not demand that everyone needs to do the same.

What I hold is Parks is either over the top with monolithic interpretative centers or not maintaining infrastructure. Family walking is something they do not understand to be generous about. Frankly I think Parks management want people to remain captive in a small fish bowl. I say congratulations to our NZ counterparts so instead of ignoring them, justifying our way or criticizing them, it would be good if we could attempt to learn something from them.

Anyway that is how I see it.

Cheers

[wayno]

what are the volumes of people walking the track in tasmania

the nz great walks in hteir peak season will have over 50 people a day the great walks for multi day trips so they are taking in over $2500 a day
and thats just the freedom walkers.
on some of the great walks, private companies are being charged by doc to use the track, i dont know waht they charge but I"ve been told by one doc staff member it's "a lot"

so they are making thousands a day for each great walk which are between 30 and 80km

if tasmania arent getting the no's of people that the nz tracks are getting then that must drive the cost up.

fiordland has three great walks, and another two walks with privatly run multi day trips

they have more huts all over the place they are also charging for.

doc are currently in the process of making a lot of staff redundant. which shows they arent doing that well financially after the govt took nearly 60 million off their annual budget....