One person's walk to lighter gear

[Ent]

Hi

After more than a few false starts I have been experimenting with lighter gear. Now I am no UL convert chasing the half grams nor are willing to surrender comfort and reliability. More looking for what works for me.

This weekend three of us made Reynolds Falls our target. A friendly series of email banters flew around. Ok on the public forum maybe the moderators might have fired s warning shot but it was good fun.

We have the champion if weight saving verging on UL. Poor knees is the driving force behind his zeal. Frameless pack and wet weather gear that would have fashion experts expiring having run out of air while speaking about it. But jokes aside, each item is carefully selected to suit Tassie's conditions. And modifications made where it does not.

We have our stirrer that again selects stuff to suit Tassie. Ok UL cheating was attempted with remarks "it is only what is in the pack that counts". Get ready for the latest in UL clothing. Stuff with very big pockets! His pack had a frame but was fixed length.

Now I am not going to quote pack weights simply because this is rather meaningless and despite our banter it was not a competition between us but one with ourselves. Add PLB, GPS, and cameras to on person's pack and of course they will tip the scales more. Also we had physical sizing ranging from medium to xxl so should not be no surprise who will win there in the gram counting.

So this thread is my journey in saving weight. Now does it mean I have conveyed to the UL cause and singing with arms raised? No, in fact none of my gear would actually fall under the ultra of light. In fact I am still not personally sold on some lighter weight gear that I have as when things turn nasty old faithful gear is what I appreciate.

The Reynolds Fall walk is a good test as covers most type of terrain and been long for shorter days plus up and down a good test if lighter helps. We got the usual four seasons in a weekend.

So what was the main modifications.

First was the One Planet Shadow pack. This replaced my One Plant McMillan. I refuse to compromise on pack harness support and comfort. Also many packs are designed for a bean pole build. OP pack harnesses suit me. Also they are great scrambling packs. By that reasonably streamline. I did go for a Lowe Alpine Nanon first up but found it not for me. With the Shadow you get fully adjustable back length harness rated at up to twenty kilogram comfort. And I concur with that figure. I brought it second hand from market forum and maybe in retrospect would have been better up get a long. It fitted just and was very comfortable but maybe a fraction too short but others told me it looked right. Anyway it sailed through the walk and is s great thing.

But to get into a 56 litre space you need more compact gear. This was achieved by replacing my Hilleberg Nallo with a MSR Nook. Noticed the much smaller vestibule but liked the smaller setup space and better height further back in the tent. Like the Nallo still a bit short for me.

Next item is a Thermarest X-lite. Not bad but even on the large rather narrow but still worked well. It replaced say the Exped Downmat 7.

Rainshell was a big change. Out went the PP Vista with the PP Goretext pants and Skil braces. In went the Montane Air and dare I write, the Three Peak water proof pants. The Air worked a treat but a friend's one started to delaminate around where the pack sits. The pants, well let's just say they were light and cheap!

The cooker was the Jetboil Solo Titanium and it replaced the Primus Gravity with MSR Black-lite pans. Fast to boil water and with the appropriate modification to the menu worked well. All cutlery was replaced with a long handle spoon and plate chucked out.

So there are some of the changes. I will make more comments when not using the iPhone.

Cheers

[wayno]

thats a bugger about the air, forewarned is forearmed for the rest of us, delamination is my biggest fear when i get my helium 2....
as hillary sad, nothing venture nothing win....
i saw in another post someones westcomb jacket delaminated, instant replacement under their lifetime warranty.... any chance montane do a similar thing? they certainly charge enough...

[Ent]

Hi

My Montane Air is holding up well but it only has two days out. The Reynolds Falls was a good test as long uphill climbs and rain with warmish temperature. It worked well. Trouble with the lighter gear is they suffer with wear from the pack. eVent stuff is not as well regulated as Goretex so you are at the mercy of a garment maker's choice of grade.

It will be interesting how mine performs and how my friend gets on with Montane's warranty.

Cheers

[wayno]

i'm sure i could stress test the Air for you if you're finding the trouble finding the time he he he

[mattmacman]

I just got a Montane Air, it's awesome!

[Ent]

Hi

The Montane Air is one of those lighter weight buying decisions that I am not too sure of. At $135 it was the bargain of the eVent line up. It is a thin fit so just fits me but that means it probably breathes a bit better. Its DWR has stood up extremely well under one overnight snow trip and an overnight to Reynolds Falls and suggests that it will not be the problem that haunts at least one other brand. It performed as expected and deserves praise for its breathability. The hood design is excellent and shows that Montane have come a long way in their basic jacket design. But, and the big but, is longevity if carrying a pack. Now it has been suggested by one poster of a rival clothing brand that under 40 denier material is not suitable for packs. Sthughes experience is his jacket is deliminating where the pack sits. Mine however has not, well at least not yet. Time will tell. If it does not then an excellent jacket, if not, then it joins the growing list of lighter weight gear that flunks the real world test. I am hoping that it does not deliminate as it is a promising piece of kit.

Cheers

[wayno]

if all else fails, go naked and smear yourself in grease to repel the rain..... works for he swimmers, can't be all bad.....

[Ent]

if all else fails, go naked and smear yourself in grease to repel the rain..... works for he swimmers, can't be all bad.....

Now there is an ultra extreme ultra light solution. Yes officer I was only trying to save my carrying weight when I bumped into a group of..........

I like the Air jacket and hope that it works. If however the comments made on another thread that light weight eVent material is no good for use with packs applies to me then this shoots down UL claims of such jackets suitability. Then back to the PP Vista and 1.6kg rain shell.

I looked long and hard at mine and I think I can see the beginning of the delamination process. It is very strange that Sthughes has had much worst issue yet on both occasions has had a much lighter pack.

Cheers

[Ent]

Hi

Well a run down on the tent options.

The Nallo without groundsheet tips in at 2330 grams and with groundsheet 2770 grams. Average peg weight is 12 grams. It has 15 pegs as standard so say use 5 you have 120 grams in pegs so 2200 grams for a tent that will standup but not be optimum pitch. You can loss weight by dumping the spare pole section for example. But I tend to carry it as complete so say 2.8kg.

The Nallo I would hope to handle anything expected in Tassie providing it was properly peg out. For those of you not put off by the "do not cook in tent warnings" it's vestibule is large enough with good weather protection to do the job nicely. It can also handle two large packs with ease. The only real downside is it drops low to the end thus if you are over 6'2" it is a bit short. Still the large air gap between the inner and outer means no great hardship.

Ok now to the MSR Nook. Well it like a growing number of light weight tents it has the number of pegs and guy lines minimized. This gives it an impressively light 1450 gram count for a two person tent with similar Nallo interior dimensions. Plus it can be largely free standing.

Ok but for Ent standards it was brought up to Nallo specs with all points having a guy line attached and peg included. This meant seven more guy lines and pegs. The standard pegs are star pegs but rather short. Also they do not come with rope loops to extract them. So in keeping with light is good I used 1.5mm guy line and mini line locks. In all 15 meters of guy line and ten line locks. Maybe added 60 grams for this. The standard peg weighs 10 grams but are not available locally so I used two S2S star pegs at around 12 grams each and six titanium pegs at 17 grams each. Err why the extra peg. I broke one of the standard pegs using a hammer so my fault!

Ok groundsheet and mud mat added. The groundsheet unlike on the Nallo is required to protect the floor. Also it enables outer then inner pitch rather than inner then outer The mud mat is a luxury.

Ok the tent is now directly comparable to a Nallo and tips the scales at 1947 grams.

The biggest downside so far is the vestibule barely fits a 56 litre One Planet Shadow pack. Cooking option is not as good either. But the height extends further back in the tent.

So there are some of the facts. The weight saved is close enough to a kilogram if I lighten the peg weight and dump the mud mat. For the Nallo fans, yes it is still my preferred all seasons tent but the Nook is mighty impressive, vestibule size aside. The Nook can fit where the Nallo does not.

Each tent had its pros and cons.

Cheers

[sthughes]

People should bare in mind Ent is very precious about his vestibule space! To my eyes the shadow fits fine in the Nook's vestibule and there is still room to cook. Overall I definitely rate the Nook a great luxury 1 man tent that is still reasonably light, the Nallo a cramped 2 man tent, but a bit heavy as a one man tent. It had better width than the Nook but lousy height in comparison. Very tough though.

[Ent]

Precious, what do think I am a hobbit gone over to the darkside

Pretty good summary though. The Nook for a person that generally goes solo but has a person that they enjoy being around so happy to share for the occasional trip while the Nallo is capable of holding two with some comfort but rather heavy as a one person tent. It seems to be that the best two person tent is a three person tent. Actually it was amazing to me when I sold my Akto. It is a great tent but always a size too small for me. Around its new owner it looks like a palace. Tent functionality is the heavily related to the size of its occupants.

The Nallo vestibule and zipper arrangement is a class act. When you experience near perfection even good designs like the Nook appear average. The Nook basically blows most solo tents out of the the water for space and gives little, if any, away in weight providing it does not have the groundsheet or additional guylines and pegs. As we head to winter I am more tempted to use it than I was when it first arrived. I did notice it felt a lot taller than the Nallo but I think the measuring stick would suggest that this is not the case. It is the trick that height actually increases a bit further back where the Nallo starts tapering from the front pole that gives that impression.

I like both tents and will not be selling either unless something comes along even roomier for the same weight. Be interested in what other Nook owners think.

Cheers

[Ent]

Anyway a few photographs of the Nook in a domestic environment.

[wayno]

very nice, certainly leaves you in no doubt who makes the tent........ can't fault the brand though....

[Nuts]

I'm trying to picture what happens in a wind blast from the side. I haven't owned a hub style tent, do the cross poles slide or swivel on the long pole (so it all bends down) or does it just hold rigid? Either way, perhaps its best to add some elastic/self-tensioning to those new tie-outs? Nice tENT

[Ent]

Hi

Honestly I have no idea what will happen in a big blow. I agree with the theory that a tent should deform rather than breaking. I would assume that MSR have done the home work on the hub. On the Nook the hub swivels and even if it broke it would not effect performance I would think. The "hub" merely appears to help in pitching the tent to put the poles in place as once there the fly holds them.

It is interesting that the tent is shipped with no guy lines but has seven attachment points and the video recommends the "optional" guys for back country use.

Yes it is a MSR!

Actually becoming a fan if the 1.5mm guy lines and the mini line locks. I think that the line locks will fail by slipping at 70 or 80 kilograms of force which is a good thing if you trip over a guy line.

One modification a would like to do is allow two of the base pegging points to adjust simmliar to the Nallo system. The zPack type adjusters are used on the front vestibule but I would like to add two the to the rear. This would mean some tolerance in placing the pegs.

It has only been out once and the conditions were very tent friendly.

Cheers

[wayno]

with decent alloy poles they will stand up to a lot of force and can deform quite a bit without any problem,
my olympus tent was knocked completely flat by a 100km plus gust and bounced straight back, none the worse for wear.....

[Ent]

Well time to report back on the MSR Nook as it performed in the wild.

The first trip was to Reynolds Falls. It was pitched in amongst trees in a lovely forest camp setting so completely sheltered on a balmy evening. Real blighter to setup with a rather confusing pole system until you get use to it. Also rather fiddly in the details such as Velcro pole loops, etc. In all much prefer the Hilleberg Nallo but hey it was its first outing. The small vestibule for once and for all confirms that many of the major brand names that make a range of goods simply do not understand tent design and quoting number of people excludes pack storage space. It struggled to fit in the rather compact Shadow 56 litre pack. Could not imagine the vestibule coping with two large size packs. But that grumble aside I like the high roof line and it was a pleasant place to be in. The optional mud mat that covers the vestibule is classic after thought design. Strongly suggest anyone skip that option. The ground sheet is needed for the thin floor but while you can pitch the tent outer only with it you can not in practice then remove the inner unless seriously determined and/or desperate. Still for the weight and size happy camper.

Natural habitat for a MSR Nook.

Second trip was Lake Sandra in winter which is perched up on Mount Murchison. The tent withstood the blowing gale with ease thanks in large part to the additional guy lines that I had attached. Pitching it with frozen fingers was a challenge. Again found it very fussy. The ground turned white with hail and snow so solid work out. And this is where beyond any doubt the issue of four season verses three season showed. The Nook has large amount of mesh and this makes it a freezer to sleep in during winter, especially with the wind blowing through it. Others are free to disagree but the Nook is not a winter tent for Tassie; at least for me. Even in a minus twelve sleeping bag I froze. Well I was warm in the bag but it was closed up with just the mouth and nose exposed and boy did my nose freeze. Temperature was minus three to five with strong winds. The Hilleberg Nallo is soooooo much nicer in those conditions.

MSR Nook with its bigger brother, the MSR Hubba Hubba HP.

No place for a Nook, if you want to be warm!

The third outing was when I lent it to a work college that was impressed by its specifications. The place was Lake Myrtle in snow. He had just brought a minus ten sleeping bag so was keen to try that out as well. The impressive specifications met the reality of actual use creating an impression that resulted him in buying a One Planet two person tent. Yeap, it is not only me that thinks a tent with high fly and non closeable mesh is a bad idea for a winter tent in Tasmania. He struggled a bit with the setup and found the vestibule rather cramp so threw his pack outside when cooking. (Please note, MSR warns you not to cook in their tents but this is Tasmania and we do, but even so be very aware that carbon monoxide poison kills people and has this year in Tasmania) The tent was not worried structurally by the conditions but as my college found out, you need a minus ten sleeping bag with this tent. The Hilleberg Katium was soooo much warmer.

Frozen tent testing turn out to be frozen potential tent purchaser testing.

So next post will be on its latest outing and the joys of getting spare parts.

Cheers

[roysta]

[quote="Ent"]Well time to report back on the MSR Nook as it performed in the wild.


Well done Ent, good reports.

[wayno]

definitely gone above and beyond the call of duty in evaluating that tent! seldom have so few suffered so much for a tent review???

[Ent]

So just to take one more step the next trip was to Blue Peaks. Conditions rather warmer with overnight touching positive seven but rain and mist later in the evening. The Nook was pitched with the large side vents closed. The night was still with a mild breezed and the camping spot well sheltered. It was rather damp under foot. The result was remarkably little condensation. This is probably the conditions that the Nook is better suited for.

Near perfect place for the tent.

But then a rear buckle broke. No great problem to rig up a fix and frankly the buckle was so light and small it did not surprise me that it broke. It was on a 16mm strap. But that is when I found the joys of MSR's in Australia poor customer support. Went around all the shops in Launceston and not one had a buckle that suited. Ok, it is a YKK 16mm one but if another store refers me to Allgoods I will start screaming and yelling. What is it with the chain stores that flog huge quantities of stuff but do not even have a few buckle sizes in store. One chain store told me point blank that they do not stock any spares so see Allgoods. So you shell out your five hundred dollars plus on a pack/tent and tread on a buckle and then you get referred to another store for spare parts I agree that it was a long stretch for the non MSR stores to stock my particular buckle but surely they should for their own products Anyway not even the MSR store had the buckle. Let say the Australian Distributor was not much good either. Ok, email to MSR home base but no reply as yet. Sounds more and more like do not buy MSR stuff if you need spares. Needless so say I will come up with something but MSR reputation for customer support with me in Australia is a very, very, extremely expensive bad joke.

So in summary. The tent is suitable for say nine months in Tasmania but be prepared to have a warmer sleeping bag that your mate in a "proper" tent. Build quality is very good but some minor things like buckles are way too fragile. One of the pegs broke as well and they are rather too small for soft ground. With the lack of adjustment with the pegging points you need to have four points were the pegs need to be smack bang on. Hello, MSR this is sold as a back country tent, do you not have rocks in your part of the world? The weight is impressive at 1.4 kilograms but it does need a ground sheet and more pegs plus guy ropes to be classed as a "back country" tent which quickly reduces this "impressive" specification. Put these additional guy ropes on and it will stand strong winds but as Nuts says you need to consider side on winds, not that I found this too much an issue but then it was not 100 km/ph winds either.

Basically a good summer tent for one or two smaller people with tiny packs. All said and done the Nallo kills it for all round Tassie camping and for the extra weight its now defunct bigger brother, the MSR Hubba Hubba HP is a better bet. But for fast and light it will remain in my collection as not much else out there, and in a way the compact footprint means it is well suited for small difficult spots where the Nallo needs some space and you can pitch it self supporting if a little flappy.

Cheers

[Ent]

Looking at the last photograph I thought I would do a bit of a mini review of the lastest One Planet Shadow. In our informal group there are all three models of the Shadow. I brought the second version strangely enough second hand on this forum and found it a promising pack but it was a medium that was just a bit shy of my 6'3" frame. So handed the 56 litre medium on and decided to take the plunge and brought a brand new long 60 litre Shadow. Now before some get too excited on the forum the Shadow is a light weight pack made from lighter weight canvas so is not going to be the tough nut that say my McMillan is. My One Planet McMillan is my pack of choice for hard, long or winter walks where the 90 litres is needed to carry all my stuff. I was and still am tempted by a One Planet Stiletto but in the long it is 75 litres so a bit close in size to the McMillan but still a great tough pack. The Shadow is a lighter weight pack than my Mungo by a worthwhile margin where the WBA makes you wonder if it is worth the effort.

It is my second/third attempt at a lighter weight pack. The first was a Lowe Alpine Nanon Long. The harness on that pack is just not me and beside even if it was the load limit is 15 kilograms and that is a weight I exceed so easily. But it at least did prove that I could fit my gear into a smaller pack. Might give it another run packed differently but maybe not, probably destined to become a dust collector. The next was the 56 litre medium Shadow but as mentioned just a bit too short in the back so weight gradually went on the shoulders. As good as any harness is, if it does not fit you then it will never be as comfortable as it could be.

Anyway lets look at the competitors to the new Shadow.

Lowe Alpine Nanon.

The smaller and could be argued better due to streamline shape Lowe Alpine.

Golite's entry. Lightest by far but no rigid harness.

The second incarnation of the Shadow in medium 56 litre.

Of this collection the Shadow is the heaviest but has the highest load rated harness. I loaded the Lowe Alpine up to its recommended limit of 15 kilograms and it was not brilliant. The Shadow I kept at 17.5 kilograms on the Reynold Falls wander and it was very comfortable to begin with but then weight drifted to the shoulders so begin the constant hitching pack up routine. The other packs belong to fellow walkers and they are best to comment on the comfort/load rating.

So how did the new correctly size Shadow go on the Blue Peak wander? Well loaded it up to its maximum recommended load of 20 kilograms (19.9kg). Now One Planet packs are nearly always been tinkered with but certain features remain the same while others change. It is interesting looking at the original Aking packs and seeing the changes over the years. The Shadow is no different. The first was nylon material with mesh pockets. The next was the light weight canvas and incorporation of the brilliant One Planet bottle holder system. The new version adopts the pull forward to tighten harness system that is used on the bigger One Planet packs and the Lowe Alpine Nanon. I am not too sure if it was the redesigned belt system or the correct back length but the Shadow is now officially the most comfortable pack in the Ent collection, replacing the much loved Mungo in top spot. At its maximum weight it makes you wonder why you would need the Exact Fit system at less than 20 kilograms. Err, one things to consider though. The Exact Fit harness can have stuff crammed in an it does not poke you in the back while the Midi harness system used on the Shadow needs more care in packing else you will wind up with something sticking into your back. This can be a quandary to pack as hard objects make great "cutting" edges for pack material so you are challenged avoid placing them in areas of the pack that will bump against things like rocks and keeping them away from the back. Just a bit more care is needed than say with the McMillan where the "standard" approach to packing is to place in the centre of the room and lob things into it.

I am a fan of the new Shadow and used in the right context will be a great pack. It is not a pack to go scree surfing but as the Reynold Falls wander and off track in the Lake Mackenzie area proved it is tough enough for scrub but I would imagine like the Mungo and Styx 2 abrasive rocks will soon take their toll. The Shadow will be a stayer in my march to lighter gear as it has a brilliant harness with a sensible weight. Given that I dodged major back surgery I tend to be hyper sensitive to poor harness systems so would rather with say the medium Shadow give a pack away than suffer with a wrong size or poor harness system. Also amazing how much handier the extra 4 litres is. It means that the XXXL Crocs can go in the pack and I am a strong believer that apart from snowshoes and such items everything else should go inside the pack.

The only issue I struck was the sliver strapping material is rather slippery and unlike the older yellow stitched black material shoulder adjustment will slip during a walk. No great issue to fix on the run but still not as good as the original approach used on the older One Planet packs. I did strike this on the newer Styx 2 but as it was worn the strapping roughen up a bit and the slipping reduced. Hope the same thing happens with the Shadow.

Cheers

[Strider]

That GoLite has a very awkward backward lean going on

[Ent]

That GoLite has a very awkward backward lean going on

The owner likes the Golite and it preformed well on the Western Arthur's traverse. Personally I am not a fan but each to their own. You might notice his custom lid to overcome the weakness of the hole on the top.

The Lowe Alpine had much the same backward lean on me but could have been the way I packed and adjusted it.

Cheers

[wayno]

meh.... a pack review isnt truly complete until it's been thrown several hundred metres down a scree slope. person attached optional but it does add to the authenticity if one is....

[Franco]

Is everyone using the same poles ?

[Ent]

Is everyone using the same poles ?

Yeap, same brand but different versions. Black Diamond poles were adopted by each of us after long and bitter experience with other brands. Have to be the best poles around but not exactly the lightest.

Cheers

[Strider]

That GoLite has a very awkward backward lean going on

The owner likes the Golite and it preformed well on the Western Arthur's traverse. Personally I am not a fan but each to their own. You might notice his custom lid to overcome the weakness of the hole on the top.

I have a Golite Quest and am a fan so far, but admittedly haven't done any multidays with it as yet. Mine does sit straight though - maybe those two tiny aluminium stays do something after all?

I think I've seen that lid in the MYOG section?

[Ent]

I think I've seen that lid in the MYOG section?

Yeap I think it featured in that section. Very neat fix to a rather obvious oversight in Golite's design.

Cheers

[Ent]

Now the more challenging bit of gear, the waterproof outer shell. My traditional weight Goretex Paddy Pallin Vista jacket matched to the PP Goretex pants is not either cheap nor light but is bomb proof so it will be a challenge for alternative gear to measure up to this high standard. The first attempt being a Montane 200 jacket was a disaster as one simple slip and the jacket shredded.

The Montane Air was brought at a cheap price from Mainpeak online store in Australia. Sthughes and Penguin brought one as well, Sthughes' deliminated after the first walk and mine started to look a little shabby but not so bad. Anyway first walk for mine was Reynold Falls. The hood design is excellent but like all bum freezer designs can ride up over the waterproof pants. It is a nice fitted fit and I sort of squeeze in which is a good thing as more than a few jackets out there are cut with set squares designed around Norm. Sleeve length is boarder line for me but so are just about everything in this one size fit all marketing mindset. The eVent material worked and breath well. Frankly in my experience the claims of eVent being sooooo much better than Gore-tex are more marketing hype than fact, at least in Tassie's conditions. The DWR stood up reasonably well. Reynold Falls track can be a little scrubby and slippery so took a tumble or two with light scrub bash and the jacket sailed through. Not an extreme condition scrub bashing jacket but suitable for Tassie tracks walks.

Next wander was to Blue Peaks. The first day was great weather but the second was misty conditions followed by pouring turning into driving rain and finally heavy snow. Pretty good conditions to try out the jacket as you can see from the photograph.

Good conditions to try out wet weather gear.

It worked well and in all very happy with its performance given it is a light weight bum freezer design. But then when washing it the delimination issue appeared in spades. Now it is not only where the pack sits and rub but overall on the jacket. This confirms to me the eVent fabric has more than a few issues with some brands starting with M. So two wears and the jacket is looking rather suspect. I will give it another go providing the bubbling has not compromised it performance.

Cheers

[wayno]

events breathability advantage over gore tex's gets neutralised the longer and more heavily it rains..... also need some wind to get the breathability benefit