Alpine or Trek Pack

[wildernesswanderer]

Hi all,
This is my first post here and I tried searching first but couldn't find anything specific so:
I'm looking for a multi day pack. I'm doing a easy 5 day trek in the Victorian High Country in December followed by the Overland Track in Winter then Milford Sound in Spring, taking in the difference in terrain, weather etc I'm looking at Alpine Packs. I do like Macpac's Ascent as its a type of canvas and I presumed it would last longer, but that said is a Alpine pack needed or just a trek pack like Ospreys for instance, that have the bottom zip and J zip.
Any other pack you would recommend,

Thank you
Keith

[roysta]

Keith,
Personally I wouldn't worry about an alpine pack.
I have a cupboard full of Osprey packs of all sizes and believe they go well in most situations.
Frankly I think one of those type of packs (they're light) would be more than ok for what you're planning.
I would suggest for the Tassie and NZ trips though that you take one of the stronger STS pack covers plus, of course, a good pack liner.

[bailz66]

I ended up getting the Aarn Load Limo and the quality has been great!
Get fitted properly and you will be set!

[wayno]

good choice, alpine packs are made for continental alpine environments to cope with heavy sneow they dont put any external pockets on them since they accumulate snow plus avoids snagging on rocks, they can also be used as haul bags getting hauled up rock faces so again they dont have the pockets,
so theres nothing in the way of easy access on them, they dont tend to have lengthways access zips or zips for the sleeping bag at the bottom, i'm not sure why, possibly in case they ice up, plus zips are harder to operate with cold hands in cold alpine conditions.
treking packs tend to have easy access outside pockets and sometimes a sleeping bag compartment and or length zip access to the main compartment.
mind you if you're doing deep river crossings and or pack floating you dont want any zip access to the main compartment that will let the water in..

[nq111]

To be frank I think the distinction is an old-fashioned one and these days the majority of packs contain a mix of what was traditionally alpine or bushwalking.

Like boots - get the best fitting of your body. This trumps features and even to a degree weight for what you are doing IMO. Most features you can manage around one way or the other - a harness that doesn't work for you will always be an issue.

[wayno]

the trends in designs i mentioned are there, its a generalisation about the design categories, there is a tendancy to design they way i mentioned for purely alpine or purely trekking packs., there are now also a massive range of pack designs in between, a lot of companies you can get the fit and features you're .

[wildernesswanderer]

Thanks for the info. Some great points in favour if Alpine packs with the pockets and zips and of course the harness has to feel right or it's a total waste. And the Aarn packs look interesting too so will have to check them out

[wayno]

alpine pack are the ones minus the pockets and zips

[wayno]

the aarn packs you can't see your feet easily with the front pockets full.. makes it harder to negotiate rough ground. also scrambling steep faces the pockets can get in the way.

[nq111]

the aarn packs you can't see your feet easily with the front pockets full.. makes it harder to negotiate rough ground. also scrambling steep faces the pockets can get in the way.

Yeah - they are the exact reasons I am not sold on the concept - despite the carrying advantages.

[wildernesswanderer]

I looked at their website "Aarn" and didn't realise when you bought the pack you got the front section as well. Did like the fact they say they are waterproof. Don't know if that's marketing hype or actually true as no matter what pack I buy I need to protect about $15.000 worth of camera gear as well.

[wayno]

still pays to use a dry bag inside. if you hole a "waterproof" pack the water will get in but it won't get out unless the hole is underneath.....
dont expect it to stay waterproof or one day you might end up with $15,000 of wet camera gear.... they rely on membranes and tape to keep them dry, over time both wear down...
i dont think aarns use the heaviest of material, they are used by lightweight bushwalkers.

[roysta]

The whole terminology think is a misnomer (crap) anyway.
I've just returned from an altitude trip to Peru and used an Osprey Exos (46 litre) as my summit (and everything else pack), ice axes etc attached.
It was perfect.

[nq111]

+2 on the Osprey's - the are a great fit for my back too.

Black Diamond packs seem to be getting some good write-ups - given they are traditionally a climbing hardware company that didn't make any packs just five years ago interesting to see such progress. Dozens of other very good options too - Arcteryx, Gregory, McHale etc, as well as the solid locals e.g. One Planet, MacPac.

And yes, never work on a pack keeping water out - drybag anything of value (e.g. sleeping bag). Indeed, it is so easy to use drybags and you can't get away from them I don't see waterproofness as a feature of much value at all.

[wayno]

yeah well the specific alpine packs are designed for stereotypical situations for certain locations, lots of snow and or hard ice and rock, doesnt stop you from grabbing any bag you want to climb a mountain with....

[wayno]

i experienced 300mm of rain in two days using a non waterproof pack and a pack liner dry bag. the only water that got in was from when i opened up the dry bag in the rain to get some gear out... just examine the dry bags every time you use them gear with hard edges pushed against the bags will eventually damage the lining so either decide to patch it or replace the bag

[Strider]

If waterproof is your top priority, may I suggest one of these? 100% waterproof!

[wayno]

cheap but easily punctured

[wildernesswanderer]

Ha garbage bad, I don't think so. I'm going to go a Alpine pac, I don't mind the one opening at the top and no extra pockets, zippers etc, and then also get a good dry bag.

[wayno]

exped are my fav brand of dry bag, the membrane is wel bonded to the bag fabric and the bag is a strong one.

[wildernesswanderer]

Thanks I'll check them too.

[Dale]

the aarn packs you can't see your feet easily with the front pockets full.. makes it harder to negotiate rough ground. also scrambling steep faces the pockets can get in the way.

Not my experience. The front pockets look cumbersome but don't obscure vision. IIRC there is a way to reattach them for scrambling.

[Strider]

exped are my fav brand of dry bag, the membrane is wel bonded to the bag fabric and the bag is a strong one.

I wonder if they use the same method when constructing the Schnozzle Pump Sacks...

[Dale]

exped are my fav brand of dry bag, the membrane is wel bonded to the bag fabric and the bag is a strong one.

I wonder if they use the same method when constructing the Schnozzle Pump Sacks...

Strider - have you had schnozzle issues ?

[Moondog55]

Chouinard made packs almost from Day One, so have BD, but always with an emphasis on climbing BigWalls and mountains.
Most important thing is fit and comfort providing the size is big enough to get your gear inside and no matter what the original purpose of the pack it is always possible to add extra pockets to hold more gear.
I find anything smaller than 70 litres too small for anything except day walks, but I'm a big bloke ( XL and XXL in clothes ) and my clothes and sleeping gear are correspondingly bigger, smaller framed people can use smaller packs as their gear is less bulky.
If your camera equipment is really that expensive [and fragile ] you will need an extra layer of protection, so I would add a CCF layer inside the dry bag for impact isolation as well which is going to need a larger pack.
Rolling a CCF pad inside the main pack was standard practice for soft packs back when I first started climbing, it acted as protection and as the frame and I still do it now if a river crossing is needed ( flotation as well as protection) mind you I hate river crossings

[ninjapuppet]

Hi all,
This is my first post here and I tried searching first but couldn't find anything specific so:
I'm looking for a multi day pack. I'm doing a easy 5 day trek in the Victorian High Country in December followed by the Overland Track in Winter then Milford Sound in Spring, taking in the difference in terrain, weather etc I'm looking at Alpine Packs. I do like Macpac's Ascent as its a type of canvas and I presumed it would last longer, but that said is a Alpine pack needed or just a trek pack like Ospreys for instance, that have the bottom zip and J zip.
Any other pack you would recommend,

Thank you
Keith

Keith,
The walks you specify, arent real climbs but rather still alpine bushwalking. For climbing however, there are certain features that make life a lot easier:
- less padding so its lighter
- the ability to strip down drastically for the summit push, such as removable back padding,
- The ability to quickly stow and remove shovels, trek poles, snow anchors, avalanche probes to the side
- crampon pockets, when you take your crampons on and off on mixed trerrain
- double haul loops for hauling the pack up.
- a rope attachment that can cinch down on top. Some also have a helmet attachment.
- The waist padding should have ice screw loops and gear loops for attaching carabiners
- Then there are summit alpine packs that are generally much smaller about 18-35L intended for only overnighters.


For your purposes where the main activity is still walking without a full climbing protection rack, any pack will do. Just get the one that looks good, fits your budget and especially one that feels comfortable. Alpine packs often sacrifice some comfort for the features above. and with aarn packs, they're great for walking. Ive had 2 of them but no serious alpine climber would use them.

[bailz66]

the aarn packs you can't see your feet easily with the front pockets full.. makes it harder to negotiate rough ground. also scrambling steep faces the pockets can get in the way.

I have no trouble seeing my feet while walking. I actually thought it would be much more awkward with them than what it was. The packs are good without the pockers (Which are removable) as well.

Taking my LL up the snow next week and will take particular note of how they are while looking at my feet with snow shoes on as well as how much snow acumulates on any of the pockets

[Strider]

exped are my fav brand of dry bag, the membrane is wel bonded to the bag fabric and the bag is a strong one.

I wonder if they use the same method when constructing the Schnozzle Pump Sacks...

Strider - have you had schnozzle issues ?

No. I am considering using it as a dry bag for my sleeping bag. Exped do say this is possible, but it doesn't feel all that durable or waterproof to me.

[Dale]

No. I am considering using it as a dry bag for my sleeping bag. Exped do say this is possible, but it doesn't feel all that durable or waterproof to me.

Agree. I use mine as my clothes bag and a cuben fibre roll top bag for my sleeping bag as I've had better luck with these keeping out water.

[wayno]

the exped packliner i have is 70D nylon
they also do a 15D which sounds like what the schnozzle bags are