3/4 Mats in winter or alpine--how to keep legs & feet warm

[Solohike74]

Looking for various things others have done to stay warm with 3/4 mats in the winter or alpine. Looking for a new ultralight and got eyes on the neo-air by thermarest and considering a 3/4 version.

[wildernesswanderer]

Personally I don't get 3/4 length, especially Alpine, I just purchased a Xthem at 430g fom the UK.

[Nuts]

I don't think there is a 3/4 neo mat? The trekker model comes in torso length, wide, heavier than neo.. I did seen one cut down to size somewhere.. (not hard to do).
Back when self inflating mats were the 'latest' we used 3/4 length to save bulk, would just use the empty pack to keep legs off the ground. As the mats weren't that thick, there weren't any problems with the difference in height. I would'nt imagine it would be very comfortable with a neo-air thickness mat.

[ryantmalone]

I own a long All Season Neo Air, and to be quite frank, with the size that it packs down, there's no logical reason apart from maybe 50 grams or so why you would want it any smaller. The thing packs down as big as a Nalgene bottle. Just get the full size. Problem solved.

[sandym]

Put a jacket or backpack under your feet. I did it for 23 years through Canadian winters - works fine.

[Tortoise]

Looking for various things others have done to stay warm with 3/4 mats in the winter or alpine. Looking for a new ultralight and got eyes on the neo-air by thermarest and considering a 3/4 version.

Have you used a 3/4 version at all before? If not, i'd suggest trying someone else's if you can, before you buy. I'm short (153cm) and used a 3/4 thermarest for years. Started with rainjacket / clothes for feet - worked kinda ok, except when wet.

Put a jacket or backpack under your feet. I did it for 23 years through Canadian winters - works fine.

Not sure how sandym had a dry jacket / backpack for 23 years of Canadian winters! Obviously she managed fine, but i had problems after a couple of days of decent rain. So I moved to closed cell foam square & clothes - worked much better, BUT...

...It really depends on the person. I tend to move around a lot, and often woke up with cold feet or legs, having kicked it away etc. I didn't sleep so well because I was trying not to do that. I've gone to a full length mat- which is longer than i need, but I sleep better, not just because it's more comfy having no lumps / bumps / joins (think i must be a bit of a princess in that regard ), but because i'm not worried about trying to stay on everything.

A friend lies down on her back and doesn't move the whole night, so the 3/4 works for her. Of course, the CCF square adds (some of the) weight you were saving with the short mat. But it has so many uses that I still carry it.

[Onestepmore]

I tried a 3/4 length, and I'm short - 165 cm. Feels like my feet are falling off the whole time. Switched to a 168 cm NeoAirXlite (and i have a downmat7) and all is sweet
Try an eggshell foam 'sit pad' by gossamer gear, or a piece of closed cell mat cut down, or put your empty pack under your feet

[forest]

Personal I guess on what you like. I moved from FL pads to 3/4. After a big day I don't notice any difference in comfort.
For me if I had no soft comfy pad under my hips and back I'd notice that big time. Feet, never noticed change between ccf and air mat.
Both my mat's are 3/4 length (120cm). Both neoair and exped UL downmat.
FYI I'm 178com tall.
I just use a piece of ccf under my legs/feet and don't really notice the difference. Never get cold feet, even on snow.
I do wear down socks though if it's cold
The ccf foot pad is also my camp seat so it's double duty.
The pad I use is sort flat on one side with a raised ripple on the other. Makes it about 3/4" thick but still light.
If that's not enough you could just throw your pack or some spare clothes under the pad for extra height.

[quicky]

I tend to agree with most here, and that is, with the newer mats (and their associated thickness), it's easier, and more comfortable to stick with a full length.

Try it out on your own full length mat first, simply shuffle down to the appropriate length, as if it were a 3/4 mat.

I personally would find using a pack and jacket quite difficult, as they both pack down to nothing really, so it wouldn't really work. I also find the thickness of the newer pads challenging for 3/4 use, as the height, or thickness, is increasing. Unlike the older mats that remained lower to the ground. The alternative is to look at the Klymit mats, which are not as thick, however not as warm, and would require an undermat for many people during colder climate use.

It also depends on what sort of sleeper you are. Newer 3/4's (like the NeoAir) may be better suited to back sleepers. Although, I still play around with the idea from time to time, to see if my tastes have changed. I have tried what forest does, and use my sit pad (MYOG CCF from Clark Rubber) under my feet, which works fine, and keeps me warm, but because of my restless sleeping, I am forever repositioning all the leg & foot padding underneath me.

[stuey69]

Personally I don't get 3/4 length, especially Alpine, I just purchased a Xthem at 430g fom the UK.

Yes, but you could get the small version of this at 310g and as mentioned elsewhere, put pack and other things top and bottom to fill the gaps.

[wildernesswanderer]

Personally I don't get 3/4 length, especially Alpine, I just purchased a Xthem at 430g fom the UK.

Yes, but you could get the small version of this at 310g and as mentioned elsewhere, put pack and other things top and bottom to fill the gaps.

Guess you could but I don't have a 3/4 mattress at home either

[Nuts]

Ok, didn't realize they now come in short options. Still.. I grabbed a klymit mat (of ninja thanks) that I'd choose before a shorty (if to save weight, especially bulk)

[Miyata610]

Ok, didn't realize they now come in short options. Still.. I grabbed a klymit mat (of ninja thanks) that I'd choose before a shorty (if to save weight, especially bulk)

I really want to try a Klymet.

Re 3/4 .... I use my old short prolite regularly with a top bag when I need to save weight and more importantly space in my pack. Used it on a couple of five day OT trips last month with no discomfort. Works fine well below zero if I stick a bit of ccf under my feet or use my pack. It's been to the snow with me but usually with a thin full length ccf mat.

[Moondog55]

Interesting how the same questions keep coming up, maybe we need a "Winter tips" sticky??
Best option depends on how thick your 1/2 or 3/4 pad is, i like my comfort so I always use a full length pad under my short Thermarest for walking and ski touring but when car camping I use 2 full length foam pads as well as the short Thermarest, bulky but best insulation is probably the "RidgeRest" cheapest are the blue pads from K-Mart.
I tried using a short extension mat but it kept moving around and my feet got too cold.
Going back a few decades and it was common to see the more experienced snow campers with multiple CCF pads on the top of their packs and for a short time ( until bought my first Thermarest) I used a half length "RidgeRest" and a yellow Karrimat and used my parka over the foot of the sleeping bag to try and keep the worst of the frost and condensation off it

[ryantmalone]

Ok, didn't realize they now come in short options.

They just come in Medium, Regular and Large.

Medium - 51cm wide x 168cm long @ 510g
Regular - 51cm wide x 183cm long @ 540g
Large (what I own) - 63cm wide x 196cm long @ 710g

Both the medium and regular pack down to the same size (8in x 4.1in), however the large packs down longer (11in x 4.8in). Still, not a massive sacrifice if you want ridiculous comfort in the bush. Or snow.

[Nuts]

The new ones come in 120cm don't they, need more input by the original poster it seems.
Klymit are a strange mat Phil, I think it would be love or hate relationship.

[Solohike74]

I am keen to reduce my pack weight. I'm around 175 tall. I've settled on the neoair xtherm. In 3/4 it weighs 310g. Plus I have a ccf lunch mat or full ccf roll for extra in snow camping. Previously I used my thermarest prolite plus 6ft mat which is still in very good nick. I'll swap it with anyone nearby who had the 3/4 version & wants full length.

[Moondog55]

Personally I would keep the longer mat, it has advantages when snow camping and a really good nights sleep is worth an extra kilo or two in my pack.

[Solohike74]

Personally I would keep the longer mat, it has advantages when snow camping and a really good nights sleep is worth an extra kilo or two in my pack.

Will wait til after road testing the 3/4 xtherm on main range or vic high country next winter.

[roysta]

I've just ordered a regular Xtherm (183 cms), which for me is full body length.
Has anyone actually road tested one of these in cold conditions?
The R rating of 5.7 would suggest they'll go well.
My Exped 7S (163 cms) is rated 5.9 and I love it but it's the old story, a difference of 350g in weight.
Any opinions welcome, and that goes for you Wayne, because this will get its first outing around Mt Brewster in early winter.

[Mountain Rocket]

I've just ordered a regular Xtherm (183 cms), which for me is full body length.
Has anyone actually road tested one of these in cold conditions?
The R rating of 5.7 would suggest they'll go well.

I happily slept in a sleeping bag without down on the bottom (relying totally on my Xtherm) on freezing water/snow just a week or so ago now.
Was totally warm. You can really feel the heat radiating back at your body, it is quite amazing.

[roysta]

Thanks Robert, good to hear.

[quicky]

The new ones come in 120cm don't they, need more input by the original poster it seems.
Klymit are a strange mat Phil, I think it would be love or hate relationship.

Agreed. I love mine, then hate it, then love it, then hate it. I have the full length Klymit.

In all honesty, I think the loft pocket concept, whilst great in theory, does not work in reality. Low level experimentation showed me that, often the case, there was too much tension between the layers of material to allow lofting to occur in the first place. Anyways, I'm not sold on the loft pocket theory, but I do like the weight and compact size of the mat. For me, the only way to sleep with this mat is to:

1. Sleep with the mat on the inside of my bag, otherwise I simply slide/slip off it.
2. Use velcro tabs to secure my pillow to the mat in a precise location - this allows my body to align with the holes as best as possible...every time I shift. Otherwise, when I shuffle around at night (which I am a restless sleeper), I will lose 'the good spot' and end up sleeping on the ground.

I happily slept in a sleeping bag without down on the bottom (relying totally on my Xtherm) on freezing water/snow just a week or so ago now.
Was totally warm. You can really feel the heat radiating back at your body, it is quite amazing.

Couldn't agree more. In fact, I feel this from the regular, original NeoAir...even before the improvements. They do impress for sure!

[roysta]

Received the Xtherm this morning and one very interesting fact.
The website and box say 430g, but the reality is it comes in at 500g.
Yes, I know, it's only 70g, but that isn't the point.
I wish these companies would be honest with their weights.
Now it better live up to expectations.

[Mountain Rocket]

I assume you unrolled it and removed the repair kit already roysta?
That got me. Oh and what size did you get? Mine is 442 grams so yours does seem overly 'heavy' :S

[roysta]

Duh ... yeah, you're right Robert, the repair kit and bag were there.
I've removed those and placed the mat inside another nice fitting bag I had and the weight comes in at 450g.
Still it's 260g lighter that my Exped Downmat at almost the same R rating so I'm happy.