Boots - help finding previous discussion re high vs low

[matagi]

corners take the advice given by experienced people to arrive at their conclusion

Not always.

Do you have a link to the inquest into the death of the unfortunate individual who apparently made an inappropriate choice of footwear? I'm curious about the circumstances.

[quicky]

Quicky,

I wonder if the NZ Coroner's finding was that the poor chap died because he wore shoes rather than boots?

All the best,

Ian

...if that's the case the poor chap clearly didn't listen to his mother!

[DarrenM]

My thoughts are that bushwalking/tramping/hiking is a quiver sport.....there is rarely a one size fits all application for gear.

So...my every day work boots/heavyweight hiking boots....the trusty Scarpa

My lightweight and most used and recently replaced all purpose hiking shoe/trailrunners. These things are simply the best thing I've found for all types of trips. Multiday hikes, MTB, packrafting, canyoning and long trail runs.

The new spew colour is a bit much but .....I love em.

[wayno]

corners take the advice given by experienced people to arrive at their conclusion

Not always.

Do you have a link to the inquest into the death of the unfortunate individual who apparently made an inappropriate choice of footwear? I'm curious about the circumstances.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=10858188

[Spartan]

Hi, Wayno.

There you go. According to the article the young man drowned; his death being precipitated by the fact that he was: (1) ill-prepared, (2) inexperienced, and (3) tramping solo. The fact that he was wearing runners seems largely moot to me. If the river was as high/fast as the article indicated, then likely as not he would've been swept off his feet even if he had been wearing quality boots (I would imagine the unfortunate fellow was found with the hip belt of his pack done up as well).
Canyoners in Australia swear by Dunlop 'Volleys', which is, of course, a 'running shoe'. The hiking shoes that I wear have (very boot-like) grippy vibram soles, at least as grippy as the proprietry soles on the trail runners that others have recommended here. And whilst I certainly can't speak for anyone else on the matter, when I cross streams/rivers I take my hiking shoes/boots off, and slip on a pair of 'Crocs'. Of course, many of the people I've seen fording streams/rivers do so barefooted.

All the best,

Ian

[wayno]

yup theres no evidence the shoes did or didnt contribute to his death.
but several people commented that shoes didnt look appropriate for the TERRAIN he was in, his shoes certainly wouldnt have helped him.

[Spartan]

Hi, Wayno.

Yep, and I find myself frequently questioning the 'appropriateness'/judgment vis the gear choices of many of the people that I see out and about in the bush too. Especially when they seem to be outfitted by Kathmandu!
Anyhow, I reckon your Maoris kicked around the scrub of Te Aroha wearing much less on their feet than a pair of Nikes. And what about those Hobbits, eh?! Stomping all over Middle Earth barefooted?

All the best,

Ian

[wayno]

if the stream had enough force to fracture his back and strip his clothes off, then to an experienced person the stream would have been to rough to cross. his choice of footwear possibly wouldnt have made a difference

[wayno]

Hi, Wayno.

Injuries such as you've described are always a very real possibility for hikers, and no doubt a real bummer to have to deal with. Still, I've spent a reasonable part of the past 20 years wearing heavy packs with work; I'm now currently 45 years old, and I still choose a walking shoe over a boot eight out of ten times (if my pack weight is less than 30kg, and the conditions are mild enough).
Shoes certainly aren't the best fit (pun intended) for everyone, but they still have a place in hiking.

All the best,

Ian

yup in my earlier posts i mention i use shoes as well as boots depending on the track.. i just did the queen charlotte walk in shoes. but i also walk on terrain that can be extremely rough underfoot, while its doable in shoes sometimes, its a judgment call and i prefer boots when it gets that rough, most kiwi trampers go for boots , partly for historical reasons , partly for terrain reasons, most of our mountainsides are steep, most of our trails arent well formed. and covered with rocks, tree roots, boulders, mud, dead vegetation , dead tree or. tussock grass. if you're used to walking in less hostile terrain shoes will seem a more obvious choice, , i'll use shoes wherever i can.

[matagi]

a young gent died recently in the south island, experienced trampers remarked his shoes were inappropriate for the terrain he was travelling on, they all had boots, the coroner agreed.

Not according to the article you linked. The trampers made assumptions about his level of experience based on his choice of footwear and the weight of his pack.

The coroner made a comment regarding the dangers of river crossings, but I could see nothing about footwear. And let's face it, boots would not have helped in a river crossing where the water was flowing with sufficient force to strip off this guy's clothes.

I wonder how the trampers in the article would have regarded an ultralight traveller?

As far as footwear is concerned, it's a matter of personal choice surely? Personally, I like boots that support my ankle, but if somebody can successfully navigate harsh terrain in any weather conditions wearing runners or even barefoot, then that is entirely up to them.

Sure, when somebody asks advice we can say what we prefer/works for us but in the end, it is entirely down to personal preference.

[wayno]

when someone asks for advice for a novice i say start with boots and then think about migrating to shoes later... experienced people can do what they like

[corvus]

My thoughts are that bushwalking/tramping/hiking is a quiver sport.....there is rarely a one size fits all application for gear.

So...my every day work boots/heavyweight hiking boots....the trusty Scarpa

My lightweight and most used and recently replaced all purpose hiking shoe/trailrunners. These things are simply the best thing I've found for all types of trips. Multiday hikes, MTB, packrafting, canyoning and long trail runs.

The new spew colour is a bit much but .....I love em.

Those Scarpas look like they need a good feed of Beeswax treatment to stay alive
corvus

[DarrenM]

Spot on Corvus. First thing in the morning......

I often think back to the first types of footwear I was using when I first started buying my own gear and the general consensus was heavy durable boots were the go. The lighter weight boots were less fatiguing and when I eventually switched to Scarpa's, It took a few trips to get used to the extra bulk and slippery sole on wet rocks.

Experienced people can use what they like but the first and last thing I've used are low cut lightweight footwear.

[matagi]

I would actually like to try barefoot - but I think my soft shoe-clad feet might prefer if I use an intermediate step like Five-Fingers.

[quicky]

when someone asks for advice for a novice i say start with boots and then think about migrating to shoes later... experienced people can do what they like

For people that you don't know....maybe....certainly a safer option if you know little about them. Again though, it all boils down to conditions and capabilities.

I recently introduced my nephew to hiking. He is 14, fit as a fiddle... high end in martial arts, footy scholarship, runs (including trail running etc.) bla bla bla....typical 14 year old I guess. <insert envy here>
We talked at length about a great many things, browsed shops for aaages (which is always fun anyways ) and rationalised everything.
So...all things considered...given his capability, his solid understanding of his own body including proprioception etc.,why not start him out with 'the current state of innovation and thinking'?
I fitted him out with UL gear and trail runners straight off the bat.
Now my nephew's base pack weight (he has a 44L pack and suits for anything under 5-6 days) is a tad under 12 pound or just under 5.5kg. He loves it.

So...with all of that in mind...does he need boots?....in my opinion...no...the pros of trail runners (or any low cut 'trail shoe') far outweigh boots in this situation.

UL gear, philosophy and praxis does not have to be for the experienced only...not even the partly experienced! It's a hard mentality to crack...it just doesn't have to be that way.
Sure, it's often more expensive (although arguable when you look at the bigger picture), but let's face it...people buy gear all the time and say "this sucks...I bought XYZ...it's bomber gear, but it's too heavy or bulky"...or...something new comes out...it's more functionally simple...yarda yarda....so they upgrade...and the cycle of upgrading (and arguments with partners cause you spend so much on gear) begins.

Contemporary philosophy is free to learn...you simply require the time to research how to make the decisions, what to buy, and how to apply your purchases wisely and safely.
Start your hiking with a head start, rather than as a heavyweight beginner who's primarily taught all the old school ways.
Again, it all boils down to individual capability and conditions...beginners don't have to start with either boots or the burden of heaviness.

...still, somewhere in between the varying opinions in these posts lies the balance, along with personal preference.

Rant over.

[Nuts]

That's the G-O, an alternative (for more sedentary beginners) might be to buy them a pair of runners and have them go out and do some trail walking/running first (ie no real pack weight). Ankle scrapes could be a problem (depending on terrain) but that's the only downside I can see...

We recommend boots (for guided walks) mainly so people will at least give a thought to ploughing through mud rather than skirting around.

[quicky]

That's the G-O, an alternative (for more sedentary beginners) might be to buy them a pair of runners and have them go out and do some trail walking/running first (ie no real pack weight). Ankle scrapes could be a problem (depending on terrain) but that's the only downside I can see...

We recommend boots (for guided walks) mainly so people will at least give a thought to ploughing through mud rather than skirting around.

Great point...very true. I've seen some people value the aesthetics of their runners more than a pair of boots! Kidding.
It's a trivial concept.
I bet if they did the Sodden Loddens they'd get over it pretty quickly!
*Edited.

[wayno]

someone who's been trail running isnt a novice, i'm talking about novices being people who dont have experience moving on trails.
if you have run trails then you're able to make your mind up about boots or shoes.

[Nuts]

(Personally) I still had the OP in mind Wayno.

As I said we push the boots thing on novices. From spending time with 00's (probably now 000's) of people wearing everything from sandals to scarpas I don't think footwear makes Any major difference at all when it comes to injury (besides maybe ankle scrapes)

There may be some minor ankle support with boots (laced Very tight) but then 'save the ankles screw the knees' (imo)

[wayno]

each to their own, i prefer boots in situations like this on a track known for frequent serious injuries and four deaths in eight years, when youre standing across a 45 degree slope with tussock and loose rock

[quicky]

each to their own, i prefer boots in situations like this on a track known for frequent serious injuries and four deaths in eight years, when youre standing across a 45 degree slope with tussock and loose rock

There's an easier way down that tussock and loose rock...
....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbNcMJTg6R8

[Spartan]

Hi, Nuts.

The occasional 'ankle scrape' from wearing trail shoes can be successfully mitigated through wearing a pair of ankle-height gaiters: e.g. the OR 'Rocky Mountain Low', or the Sea to Summit 'Tumbleweeds' that I use.

All the best,

Ian

[andrewbish]

each to their own, i prefer boots in situations like this on a track known for frequent serious injuries and four deaths in eight years, when youre standing across a 45 degree slope with tussock and loose rock

Where were you when you took this pic, Wayno? (It's a beaut)

[wayno]

cascade saddle. otago. sometimes done as a side trip from the rees dart trip
a month later someone slipped over a bluff to their death... someone also died there last month fell 200m... most accidents are in the wet and snow.. i made sure it was a good forecast before i even booked my holiday...

http://www.topomap.co.nz/NZTopoMap?v=2& ... 42293&z=14