Macpac Olympus - can't fit two sleeping pads in!? Help!

[honey hale]

Hi all! I am really hoping to get some advice asap as we have a first camping trip coming up in early Feb and we've hit a roadblock with trying to purchase gear to take.

I'm a new member to the forum, having spent many hours in the past weeks avidly reading up on tent recommendations in the lead up to purchasing our new tent. After reading zillions of reviews, threads, websites and comments all over the internet my partner and I bought a lovely MacPac Olympus tent.

HOWEVER... we now need to buy sleeping pads and have discovered that due to the tapered design of the tent footprint, it seems impossible to be able to fit two standard size sleeping pad in it. By 'standard size' I mean the typical 183cm x 50cm rectangular size that the majority of pads seem to come in.

I'm surprised that, given I spent days reading just about every review/description I could find of this tent AND going to see it in store at Macpac that not once did anyone mention this as something to be aware of. The Macpac website only shows the dimensions for the widest part of the tent, not the tapered end (where the problem lies). The tapered end is only 80cm wide. I just assumed that because it was a two man tent that you could fit two regularish thermarests in it.

From our measurements after we bought the tent and set it up it seems that we could only fit two sleeping mats that are no longer than 163cm (x 50 wide) - not ideal as my partner is 6' tall, OR we'd have to get two tapered 'mummy style' mats and lie them at a slight angle to each other so the toes are together, which is not what we had in mind. Also if you can only fit a mummy style pad it SEVERELY reduces your options of what you can buy (no Expeds are mummy style, and only a small portion of the Thermarest range is).

We had wanted to get some thick/comfy but also not too expensive pads to get started with (for 'car camping', where weight is not an issue). We really liked the Exped SIM 5 we saw in a store (we prefer the thicker self-inflating styles, not the 'blow up' ones like the NeoAir) and wanted to get two SIM 5's as you can velcro them together side by side -I was heartbroken to find that I they won't even fit it in the tent.

I'm feeling really bummed out because we splurged on the Olympus after deciding the Minaret would be a bit too small, but now it seems the Olympus is also too small unless you only sleep on little a half-sized mat?? Is the Olympus really more of a 1 man tent?? I've heard of up to 3 people sleeping in one but I don't get how you do that if the foot end is only 80cm wide.

Seeing as lots of forum members either have or used to have an Olympus, does anyone have any insight or advice? Am I missing something? I'm really confused as to how a popular 2-man tent doesn't actually fit two standard size sleeping mats My partner is now wondering whether we should try to take the tent back for a refund.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

[tasadam]

From the front door to the back of the tent according to is 2.2 metres.
You are considering mats that are a standard size of 183cm x 50cm
I well expect that if you sleep with your head closer to the tent door (as I and I suspect most do), there will be ample room at the feet end of the tent to allow the mats to fit comfortably without overlap, and more room at the foot end to allow for the storage of items beyond your feet.
How wide is the inner of the tent at 1.83 metres from the front door?
And how far into the tent do you have to go before the width of the tent is less than 1 metre wide?

Hope that helps.

[wayno]

what do yo call standard size sleeping mats? 6 feet long?
or four feet long?

[tasadam]

what do yo call standard size sleeping mats? 6 feet long?
or four feet long?

By 'standard size' I mean the typical 183cm x 50cm rectangular size that the majority of pads seem to come in.

[tasadam]

The short answer to this is -
Set up your Olympus
The tent inner is 2200mm long.
The mats are 1830mm long
So measure the width of the tent at a point 370mm from the back wall, if it is greater than 1000mm wide you have no issue. Nobody that I know would want the mats to go all the way to the back of the tent and leave the free space at the door end. The door usually stops whatever you decide to use as a pillow from moving out from under you.

[wayno]

anything wrong with using a shorter sleeping mat? I find I dont need to bother with the six foot mats if theres no snow.

[tasadam]

I got curious, so I made some calls, I now have the answers.
The width of the tent at a point 183cm from the front door is about 92 cm wide.
The point at which the tent is 100cm wide is approximately 170cm from the front door.
Your "standard" mats would be 100cm wide side by side.
Assuming there would be no deformity of the mats, there would be an overlap of 4 centimetres on each mat, for a length of 13cm up from the foot end of the mat.
However, as the mats are flexible, as is the side of the tent, I am confident you will not have a problem. It is, after all, what people have been doing in this tent since it was created.

Drawn to scale and based on those dimensions (which were approximate), the mat overlap on each mat, based on a mat of 183cm x 50cm, is this much -

mat-in-olympus.jpg (13.99 KiB) Viewed 13855 times

If it still concerns you, consider tapered mats, seems from what I was told that they are becoming more popular.

EDIT - overlap could be the wrong word, this diagram represents the loss on both mats based on the approximate measurements obtained. By overlapping one mat on the other you are only saving 4cm on the back of the mat, but with 92cm to play with, you need to save 8 - 4cm on both mats. It may all be irrelevant anyway - see this post.

[wayno]

honestly tasadam, sometimes you're just so vague

[Strider]

Surely this can't be right? Cam?

[tasadam]

honestly tasadam, sometimes you're just so vague

Tell you what... Buy me an Olympus tent and I will try my mats in it for you, I will even post photos...
And to avoid my photos being vague, I could make them black and white...

[tasadam]

An interesting mat review site - http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Sleeping-Pad-Reviews

The Neo-air looks pretty good - http://cascadedesigns.com/en/therm-a-re ... rm/product

[wayno]

crap in the cold

[pazzar]

I've spent a night in an Olympus, with another person who was well over 6ft tall. We both got our mats in easily (both having standard sized mats) and it was still quite roomy. There is heaps of vestibule space to keep most of the gear in anyway. Best thing to do is to go to your local Macpac store and ask if you can try out the tent, with 2 mats in it. I'm sure they will be happy to help.

[tasadam]

crap in the cold

2.5-inch thickness can't be too crap in the cold... I don't have one so cannot comment.
The review rates it as the second warmest out of 17 mats. And it's tapered which may assist the OP.

[Rob A]

..

[Son of a Beach]

I've not measured our mats (both quite old 3/4 self-inflating mats), but they fit into our Olypus side-by-side without any problems. There is no overlapping of the mats, and if I remember correctly, there is even a few cm to spare. Of course our feet hang off the end and we usually put jumpers or something under the feet.

We'll be using the Olympus again in a few weeks. I'll try to remember to take some photos. I'm unlikely to remember to measure the mats, but I'll see what I can do.

Note that our Olympus is 10 years old so has the two full sized vestibules (one at each end), and the inner is therefore longitudinally symmetrical in size and shape.

[Ent]

Hi

Being tall I can understand your issues. Many tent manufacturers claim the capacity rated in hobbits rather than people. People (generally males) under 6" rather fail to understand the issue I use a Hilleberg Kaitum 3 which is brilliant for two tall people (I use the large 193cm mats no issue) and weighs less than many other brands, but as you have all ready brought a tent then that option does not exist now unless you sell and rebuy which is an expensive learning curve.

However, mats are tending to the mummy configuration so that is your best option. I have both the rectangular Neo Air and the mummy style one. Trouble is Neo Airs are way too expensive to buy in Australia due to the local distributor’s pricing policy of at least doubling USA prices. It is very hard to find an overseas company that will ship them to Australia as soon as you do and post this information on this forum that company is told by Cascade Design that it cannot ship to Australia. But, if you can find a company then a new Neoair in the mummy style will do the job nicely. Thermarest is a good product and the R, warmth ratings, can be trusted. Generally R3 is adequate for anything but sleeping on snow. If on snow then a R5 rating is needed but a R3 is survivable but under that R rating you will be rather cold based on my experience with a R2.5 mat.

Be very wary of inhouse mats from the one size fits all shops as they are generally very heavy for the warmth rating and somewhat over priced. Exped are good mats and might be locally a better option than the Thermarest ones.

Also be aware that most mats as they get longer get wider. You might find that a regular and large might just fit. It is not much fun overlaying mats especially if they are thick. A friend has an Olypmus and found much the same issue so the over claiming of number of people is known for that tent.

Cheers

[wayno]

crap in the cold

2.5-inch thickness can't be too crap in the cold... I don't have one so cannot comment.
The review rates it as the second warmest out of 17 mats. And it's tapered which may assist the OP.

they are full of air, not foam, i think thers a layer of foil to help a bit with insulation but being air , when its really cold the insulation isnt good from what i've read, certainly not good in snow

[Ent]

Hi Wayno

You are correct that the air is for comfort rather than warmth but on the newer Thermarests they have come up with some effective system to reflect and retain the heat and it does appear to work well. However, when the mat goes flat all bets are off.

Cheers

[wayno]

save your money, get a lilo...

[Son of a Beach]

they are full of air, not foam, i think thers a layer of foil to help a bit with insulation but being air , when its really cold the insulation isnt good from what i've read, certainly not good in snow

They have multiple baffles within each compartment, as well as the foil. Just because they don't have foam doesn't necessarily mean they're not any good for cold. The XTherm (and the NeoAir All Season?) have an R rating (insulation) of 5.7 which is actually quite good. Of course there's "cold" and there's "cold" - I know NZ is colder than Tasmania.

I'm planning to buy two for my wife and I to use in our Olympus, including for winter trips. ( <-- that's my attempt to bring it back on topic)

[honey hale]

Hi folks!

Thanks for your replies - we're still trying to get a definite answer. I didn't want the thread to turn into a discussion of which sleeping mats are best... rather am just looking for confirmation as to whether two 183 x 50cm mats (the most common dimension) will fit comfortably side by side in the CURRENT Macpac Olympus.

I know MacPac has 'tweaked' the Olympus design over the years and am wondering if they have quite literally started cutting corners to make the current model smaller than the older models on which the tent's reputation and rave reviews was first gained. For example the Olympus used to have two large vestibules and now it only has one.

Tasadem for some reason I am unable to view the diagram you posted...? Not sure why it doesn't work for me. Did you get the dimensions from MacPac themselves? I called the Macpac store in Collingwood where we bought the tent and the girl I spoke to was pretty unhelpful. She didn't know the full dimensions of the tent but said she "presumed" two standard mats would fit and sort of acted like I was crazy (which could still be true ). They have the Olympus set up in store there but she said they didn't have any mats they could put in to show me how they would fit (they sell mats but she said they don't have any unpackaged ones and were unwilling to open any). I emailed the question to Macpac head office through their website this morning and have not had a reply.

Attached is the back-of-the-envelope dimensions my partner took with a tape measure and the tent set up (indoors in our lounge - so not guyed out with tension in the fly but would this affect the floor footprint?). Also because of the 'bathtub' floor it's hard to measure EXACTLY but I am still struggling to see how you can find a 183x100 (e.g. 2 mats' width). I'd be interested to see how our (albeit somewhat approximate) measurements compre to yours tasadem - can you email me your info to sharonblance@gmail.com, and let me know where you got the specs from?

My beef is that IF we can only look at mummy mats or shorty 163cm and shorter mats it drastically restricts your options, especially with what's available locally - 90% of the mats we've seen in various stores (paddy pallin, bogong, etc) are 183cm long (or longer). I just wish we had known that before buying the tent. I think MacPac is perhaps being a little sneaky in not publishing the full dimensions of their tents like Hilleberg do. Buyer beware, I guess?

[tasadam]

The measurements I got were from a local Macpac store, I phoned them and the manager went to the tent that was set up in the showroom with the phone and a tape measure.
I asked for two measrements - how wide the tent was at 183cm towards the back from the front door, the answer was approximately 92cm wide (clearly different to the measurements your sketch represents).
Then I asked for the distance from the back wall where the rear width is 1 metre wide, the answer came back as approximately 50cm, which meant 170cm from the front of the tent.
You would form your own experience appreciate that the measurements are approximate as it would be hard to measure when set up in a loungeroom or shop floor.

The illustration I posted is as it appears - a large white square representing the scale of 183cm long by 50cm wide, and the small black corner of the mat is the area of overlap (to scale) based on these measurements - of course both mats would have that much overlap. That is, the black area represents a triangle of 4 centimetres on the base (4 out of 50), and 13 centimetres on the side (13 out of 183). However, these measurements and my overlap diagram are based on fixed objects. The sides of the tent and the mats themselves will have a bit of give.

I am confident that you will get a definitive answer, but I do not know when.
If I have to go to Launceston, I will take my two Exped mats, and my camera. Possible, but unlikely, at least not this week.
I have sent the forum member "blacksheep" (Cam from Macpac) a message recommending he look at this topic with a view to providing answers but he does not live on the forum as much as some of us...

I do not believe you should need to go to shorter mats or mummy-shape mats, I really think you are making more of this as a problem than it is. I base that comment on the fact that this tent is a very popular bushwalking tent and if two standard sleeping mats didn't fit, someone would have complained about it before now.
But I guess we all wait for a definitive answer.

The only photo I could find of an Olympus tent with mats inside it was here in this review - http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... acpac.html which doesn't really show much, but you would think that if it were a problem, it would at least have been mentioned in a review, particularly by someone as esteemed as Roger Caffin.

[Strider]

crap in the cold

Crap, full stop.

[Onestepmore]

So at the 180 cm mark you're going to have 7.5 cm overlapping on each mat? A little more at 183 cm. Wouldn't the 'stretch' in a tent accommodate this? Not ideal, and I too would be like you and wanting it right, but 'doable', seeing you have already made your purchases. I admit the idea of velcroing them together and having them lie flat and neat seems to be flying out to the great beyond, but once you're tired and sleep beckons, will it be an issue? I'm just trying to help you work with what you already have. Do you have the option of return (of mats or tent or both? or does having unpackaged them void this possibility? And then there is the 'back to the drawing board ' feeling of more research, more decisions, blah blah more coffee/wine/scotch/chocolate)

I can commiserate re the full length mat size - I hate my feet 'hanging off ' the end, but hubby doesn't care. He just uses what I buy. Good hubby (/love)
Will one of you use a shorter (aka ligthter) mat? Problemo solvo

Give some feedback to the store and the useless sales assistant - a hiking store should have mats they sell inflated and you should be able to lie on them, set up a tent etc. They should aso employ someone who is more than just a 'body in a shop' (we are small business owners ourselves) Let them know and take your custom eleswhere. Otherwise why not just buy online? The cost premium should be for 'service'. make that a point to them.

And Tasadam, I understood your diagram /huggles

PS Hubby just came in with his 2c worth. He reckons it's more important that the mats stick together, than if they fit.
And yes I am still looking at the Spoonbill sleeping bag by Feathered Friends. We have one tent still to 'christen'........

[tasadam]

So at the 180 cm mark you're going to have 7.5 cm overlapping on each mat?

Depends on which measurements you go by, my translation is 4 centimetres overlapping on each mat at the 183 centimetre mark.

PS Hubby just came in with his 2c worth. He reckons it's more important that the mats stick together, than if they fit.

A valid point not related to this topic, but as I walk usually with my wife, it would be great if the two expeds clipped together so as not to allow the creation of a gap between us through the night (that I invariably end up in).

[honey hale]

Thanks Tasadem for your clarification on the dimensions you got from phoning a Macpac store. It wasn't that I couldn't interpret your diagram - on the computer I'm using the picture literally does not show up for some reason.

It sounds like perhaps a 183cm mat will fit, but only just, and possiby with a bit of 'squeezing'. I am fully aware that my measurements are NOT very exact, which is why I was seeking clarification from Macpac (or anyone else) because I wasn't sure one way or the other. I'm not trying to create a problem, I was actually just trying to avoid the problem of stupidly ordering mats without measuring the tent first to see if they'd fit

An experienced tramper told me that if the mats 'press into' the side of the tent wall they'll create a pressure point in the tent wall fabric which can cause all the condensation to collect at that point and possibly run onto/under your mat, which is why I wanted to double check other people's experiences with the current Olympus tent.

I was also hoping that Blacksheep would be able to chime in and give us some definitive official dimensions.

Thanks again everyone for the input. We'll make a decision shortly about mats and what length to go for

[Onestepmore]

Someone needs to design a lightweight hiking double sleeping mat with a tapered end. There are plenty of double sleeping bags, hooded and unhooded, out there, that extoll the virtues of decreased weight, better heat generation/conservation etc .
Isn't the saying amongst alpiniststhat cohabit a sleeping bag to save weight and increase heat insulation efficiency 'what happens on the mountain stays on the mountain'? (jk there)
Personally I kinda like what happens on the mountain.....
Exrapolating to regular hiking with couples - one person carries the bag and one carries the mat. There are car camping double and queen self inflating mats with 10 and 12 cm lofts - why not a hiking version?
I'll volunteer as a guineapig.
Royalties please
Stretches out hand

[blacksheep]

Hi folks, I'm currently in Kyoto, and will be a bit out of the loop for next two weeks ( spending time with our Japanese customers and distributor). I have asked my product manager for tents to check it all out and I will repost the details. Adam looks like he has it sorted though..

[Rob A]

... that the air is for comfort ...

Not really.
Unless you are rewriting the laws of thermodynamics, emissivity plus reflection = 1, and two walls. Aluminium is about as good as it gets. Unless you are the space program or bugatti.
Air is a good conductive barrier.
That is why in theory one of the best insulators is two layers of aluminium foil separated by a millimeter of air. Radiant> conductive> radiant barrier. Unfortunaltely it is not all that easy to achieve.
In practice the introduction of rigid foams etc is for mechanical stability and fabrication.
Neoirs are essentially providing air separated reflective foils.