Neck problems and hiking packs

[sweetiepark]

I've made the grand commitment to walk the overland track next New Year and now I am in the market for a pack to do it in. I have not a great history with carrying packs getting neck strain from carrying just a couple of kilos. The largest pack I have ever carried is about 8kg and I always have felt with my Black Wolf pack I am straining forward when I wear it and hence end up with shoulder and enck pain.

I have a year to get this right now and I guess I am asking 2 questions - any tips on strengthening shoulders and neck muscles to carry a load? I am fit and have access to a gym. I can exercise my shoulders to build up muscle but I dont know what type of exercises to try. I am a small-medium framed 160cm woman.

And also any tips on pack brands/models. I have been advised to get a 60L pack would be the right size. I have had an Osprey Arial and Osprey Kestrel (although I believe they dont make the larger size anymore) and a One Planet WBA suggested as possible packs.

Cheers.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I know how you feel in regards to neck strain, i used to suffer from major neck strain, till I drastically reduced my pack weight and started a exercise program at my local gym. The difference its made is enormous. I can now enjoy my overnight hikes without suffering from to much discomfort.

A very good option for you are the Aarn packs, setup correctly you can eliminate the forward bending and eliminate weight of your upper body area.

[wayno]

have you every checked with a shop that the pack is adjusted correctly?.
the heaviest gear needs to be closest to your back in the pack to keep the centre of gravity as close to your body as possible... you need to look at making sure the pack is adjusted correctly for your back length and the load lifter straps are adjusted correctly so the pack doesnt hang too far out from your back or is too tight against your shoulders. and you are taking enough weight on the hip belt that the hip belt is resting on your hips properly ..

[Pongo]

I've used a 38 litre kestral and would definitely wouldn't take it anywhere for more than a night. IMO these make good day packs (perhaps a little smaller would be better but that's a different issue) but don't cut the mustard beyond this. Don't get me wrong I like the pack but you need to select the appropriate gear for the task.

Wayno's right, getting a good fit with a pack is essential. I would place emphasis on a quality fit over shoulder strengthening, that said I'm not a physio. Our bodies are all different so a pack that works for one person may not work for another. So having a general approach to getting a pack fitted is (IMO) much better than having a particular brand in mind. So my tips for getting things right for you:

* Be prepared to spend several days trying a pack on - It takes time to load and fit a single pack let alone several, don't expect to buy on your first outing to the shops.
* Have the shop assistant load your expected carrying weight into your pack - all packs feel good when they're empty. When they have 15kg in them it's a different story.
* Load weights into a pack as Wayno advises
* Ensure that the weight of a pack is on your hips, not your shoulders.
* Test the above point by placing two fingers under the shoulder strap when you're wearing your pack. Slide your fingers back and forward over your shoulder, there should be minimal resistance. The more weight that is pulling down on your shoulders the more your fingers get stuck doing this.
* Spend at least half an hour wearing your pack in store. Browse their wares, chat with the assistant, send some texts, whatever it is you do, just wear that pack. Try and identify places that are under strain whilst you do this.
* Don't be tight - make your purchasing decision based on fit not on price

With all of that said I'll now recommend a brand! As per an old thread of mine (viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10306), I had quite a bit of trouble getting a pack to fit and ended up going with an Aarn pack - Load Limo to be exact, be mindful that some of the smaller Aarns have a different harness system so will fit differently, try them both. The design is odd, but I've had great success with it, as have many others. The fitting takes time and patience as its a pretty technical pack.

In my trails I also liked the One Planet Packs, however they just didn't fit me well enough, so I moved on.

Good luck and happy trails!

[wayno]

i use black diamond packs,, the shoulder straps arent attached to the pack at the bottom, they are linked by a cable that runs under teh pack, as you walk and twist your back or reach forward on one side, it enables the shoulder strap to lengthen automatically on one side as teh other side retracts. aleviates unecessary pressure on the shoulders.

[Hallu]

You could also try packs with an external frame, like this one : http://www.backpacker.com/november-2010 ... 001?page=2 , apparently it makes you lean forward less than an internal frame pack, so maybe it could alleviate your neck pain a little bit.

[wayno]

i think external packs are worse, it holds the weight further from the body, pushing the centre of gravity back, requiring more forward lean to counter balance.

[Penguin]

I know how you feel in regards to neck strain, i used to suffer from major neck strain, till I drastically reduced my pack weight and started a exercise program at my local gym. The difference its made is enormous.

+1 - core strength exercises were very helpful for me. Two poles has also helped. Cannot comment on the Arnn pack. The GoLite Jam has been my revelation.

P

[David M]

I suggest you check out AARN packs as well.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Yes, core strength makes life a lot easier. You need the core strength so that the muscles support your bones and ligaments in correct alignment. I used to suffer so much from back pain, now the pain is no more. I've also increased the muscle strength in my back. After only one month of gym exercises I've noticed a huge improvement in my strength and posture, After the one month of exercise I done a 10 day hike carrying all my food. I could have done it again on completion. No sore back, no discomfort. That was back in June, I continue exercising at the gym anywhere between 3 to 6 days a week.

I used to own one of those Aarn Load Limo packs, there brilliant. It helped me enormously before I started at the gym, I could carry 20 kg in that pack and stand upright, no forward slouching, I have sold all my heavy weight gear for lightweight gear and found the Aarn pack to big. I now use what's called a Gossamer Gear Mariposa 2012 pack, brilliant pack and very comfortable to wear, good for a maximum weight load of 35 pounds, so it's very sturdy and it only weighs 750grams. Best with 25 pounds or less.

[sweetiepark]

Thanks for the responses so far. Any ideas on Aarn stockists in/around Brisbane? I think my core is fairly strong due to specifically having a day of core strengthening at the gym every week for the past year ..... it is nearly like an automated response my body does when I put a pack on my shoulders I automatically hunch and lean forward. Is there some warm up that I could do pre walking/stretches post walking anyone knows about? I have been to a physio and asked them to train me to carry packs better as I thought this would be a sensible solution but I was sort of laughed off and told come back when my shoulders were sore and they would help me then. Anyone had luck with chiropractors or personal trainers helping training for this? Or just get a good pack?

[wayno]

find another physio one who works with serious sports people.., or find a decent podiatrist as well. anything wrong with your feet and it can affect juset about anywhere else in your body... preferably a podiatrist who works with sports people

[ULWalkingPhil]

Thanks for the responses so far. Any ideas on Aarn stockists in/around Brisbane? I think my core is fairly strong due to specifically having a day of core strengthening at the gym every week for the past year ..... it is nearly like an automated response my body does when I put a pack on my shoulders I automatically hunch and lean forward. Is there some warm up that I could do pre walking/stretches post walking anyone knows about? I have been to a physio and asked them to train me to carry packs better as I thought this would be a sensible solution but I was sort of laughed off and told come back when my shoulders were sore and they would help me then. Anyone had luck with chiropractors or personal trainers helping training for this? Or just get a good pack?

I would say, get a good pack.

In Brisbane K2 Basecamp sell the Aarn Packs, but don't expect to be setup correctly, No one in there know's *&%$#! about them, even though they pretend they do, Do your research online than go and try them on for size at the store and set them up from what you learn online.

[neilmny]

Walking poles might help too. With poles you put more into your arms and shoulders which helps to build you up
and improve your balance but takes some of the need to lean forward away.

Not a very scientific explanation but I am really surprised how much better I can carry a heavy pack just by using the poles.

[Onestepmore]

The above suggestions sound great regarding increasing muscle strength and fitness, and the use of Aarn packs. I use a Natural Balance (approx 60L I thnk) but not done any multiday walks with it yet. When you move to one side or the other the shoulder attachement points move on metal bars. Not a very good explantion I know, but it doesn't 'pull' when the weight shifts. getting the fit is really important - it'll take several goes. The different models seem to have completely different harness and stay systems, so try a few types. The fit of the hip belt is the most important part, as most weight is taken on there. Having weight on the front is meant to mean you don't have to lean forwards, and far less so when going uphill. I'm looking forwards to doing longer walks with it this year. You need to pack them very differently from a traditional pack - the heaver stuff goes on your front, to balance the weight more evenly over your centre of balance.
I would also suggest make gear choices and changes to reduce the weight that you carry. You'll find many exellent sugestions in this forum, and other information sites and blogs. As the saying goes, hike lighter, hike further!
Seeing a physio (and possibly a chiropracter some would say too), and podiatrist as Wayno suggests, that is experienced in sports medicine. Like doctors (and vets) there are good ones and bad ones, slack and mediocre ones and excellent ones. Shop around, word of mouth etc. Also consider shoe orthotics. In the past few years I have had to contend with 'frozen shoulder' (restrictive adhesive capsulitis - an odd inflammatory/auto-immune conditon triggered for me by a work injury and a whole heap of personal stress at the time), bilaterally but at separate times. One was severe that had a huge impact on my life, and the second not so bad (probably due to early recognition, aggressive physical therapy early and refusing cortisone intarticularly etc, use of a TENS machine) I had not only a lot of unrelenting severe shoulder pain and heavy duty opiod meds, but a lot of secondary neck and back pain. Orthotics instantly relieved this and changed my posture dramatically when I tried them, but I was at the tail end of the second shoulder and didn't actually purchase them. I wish I had known about them earlier.
Another suggestion - take pain relief and anti-inflammatories on the track, pre-emptively, not just after when you're actually sore. The total amount of pain generated is actually decreased, not just masked, prevents dorsal horn wind-up etc etc. Doses will need to be repeated according to instructions, but make sure you remain well hydrated, no preexisting gastric ulceration or kidney problems etc. I'd suggest you talk to your doctor about this point - sports medicine doc
Walking poles for sure - reduces strain on knees measurably (there have been studies done regarding impact forces) and therefore back and neck and shoulders as you're not trying to compensate for it. I left mine at home last Blue Mountains walk, and paid the price - neck back and thigh pain more than what I expected for my level of fitness (which wasn't ideal I confess)
Good luck!

[wayno]

i had major calf problems , i just kept changing medical professionals till i found one that got results..
thats what opened my eyes to a podiatrist. the first one was mediocre but another one i was recommended who deals with top sports people. helped me a lot. and so did a good sports massage person who could work out what was going on in my calf better than any of the physios in the end...
patience....

[nq111]

You shouldn't have neck pain one way or another from your pack.

Like others have suggest, I would expect a quality pack properly fitted may solve this issue.

Good luck!

[neilmny]

i had major calf problems , i just kept changing medical professionals till i found one that got results..
thats what opened my eyes to a podiatrist. the first one was mediocre but another one i was recommended who deals with top sports people. helped me a lot. and so did a good sports massage person who could work out what was going on in my calf better than any of the physios in the end...
patience....

What was the podiatry issue Wayno.
Not suggesting this relates to your problem but I had a lot of trouble some years back with a "knot" in my upper outer calf muscle about
100mm below my knee. Once I changed to a new pair of work boots the pain just went away
Now when I walk I focus on "tracking" my feet in aligment if I get slack or over tired I get knee pain
but even when the knee hurts if I check my tracking it basically goes away.
I fitness trainer type fella pointed out that I tend to roll over the outside of my toes a little (pidgeon toed).
It feels like I'm walking like Charlie Chaplin when I get the tracking right but looking down my feet only ever
pointing where I'm going. I have size 13 feet which probably doesn't help as the long foot puts a lot of leverage on the calves and ankles.

And sorry for the thread hijack !

[ryantmalone]

have you every checked with a shop that the pack is adjusted correctly?.
the heaviest gear needs to be closest to your back in the pack to keep the centre of gravity as close to your body as possible... you need to look at making sure the pack is adjusted correctly for your back length and the load lifter straps are adjusted correctly so the pack doesnt hang too far out from your back or is too tight against your shoulders. and you are taking enough weight on the hip belt that the hip belt is resting on your hips properly ..

I'll back this one up.

The biggest mistake that people make is buying a pack based on price and functionality, when it should be 90% fit, and the remainder divided up amongst the last 10%.

Most good stores will load a pack up with weighted bricks so you can try them on with a full load. Always ask them to load one up so you can see how it performs, and how it feels.

A good pack should place very little pressure on your shoulders, and carry the weight on a combination of your hips, and your chest. Should also carry the pack very close to your back, with little room for the pack to move around. If you even slightly doubt that it does all of the above, then keep looking.

[blacksheep]

make sure you get a pack with the best fit on waist belt (for you!) and with a good system to transfer the weight to your hips. Get the stores to load the pack and take some time walking around- don't be hasty or led by salesmen who don't listen. You want to avoid load on you shoulders and avoid strain on your neck. The right pack will comfortably and effectively do this by loading onto your iliac crest without overly impeding movement. Takew some time and good luck.
Cam

[slparker]

Irrespective of whether the weight is on your hips or your shoulders any postural problems with your thoracic and cervical spine ( your spine from your ribs to your head) will be amplified by weight bearing. I'm making the assumption here that despite good core stability you have poor upper spinal posture ( chronic kyphosis or stooping posture). If I'm wrong the following statements will not pertain to,you and so I would ignore them.
All traditional packs will change your centre of gravity rearward, the only exception to this ( to my knowledge) is the AARN packs with modules on the front of the body correcting the weight distribution. This means that you need to stoop forward and hyper extend you neck to look forwards and upwards... Little wonder at you have a sore neck.
The solution? Dunno for sure, my solution was being in the army and using a pack lots, just got used to it. As the previous posters suggest try and get all the weight on your hips, limiting drag on your shoulders, buy an AARN pack, and/or wear a pack lots and you will adapt. Don't, for the love of Christ, buy an external framed pack -which will place your COG even further rearward. Soldiers love these packs, don't know why, but for most sane people they should be avoided like the plague.

[wayno]

you can buy various bags that either attach to teh front of your shoulder straps or sling over teh shoulder to sit on your front, to help balance the weightt out. but the aarn front bags weight are supported from the hip belt and potentially better for aleviating pressure on shoulder

[Jack o]

I've made the grand commitment to walk the overland track next New Year and now I am in the market for a pack to do it in. I have not a great history with carrying packs getting neck strain from carrying just a couple of kilos. The largest pack I have ever carried is about 8kg and I always have felt with my Black Wolf pack I am straining forward when I wear it and hence end up with shoulder and enck pain.

I have a year to get this right now and I guess I am asking 2 questions - any tips on strengthening shoulders and neck muscles to carry a load? I am fit and have access to a gym. I can exercise my shoulders to build up muscle but I dont know what type of exercises to try. I am a small-medium framed 160cm woman.

And also any tips on pack brands/models. I have been advised to get a 60L pack would be the right size. I have had an Osprey Arial and Osprey Kestrel (although I believe they dont make the larger size anymore) and a One Planet WBA suggested as possible packs.

Cheers.

It may be worth consulting a physiotherapist, particularly one who practices clinical Pilates. A lady friend of mine who had similar back/neck problems has received considerable relief from Pilates. Physio’s often work out of gyms and will generally tailor a remedial exercise program for your condition.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Ok, some great advice here, particularly regarding issues with upper back in regards to spine.

This is the main reason I have ventured to lightweight backpacking, on the brink of ultra-light backpacking, because I suffer from a spinal curve side to side called Scoliosis. I don't talk about it much.

I was once informed by a chiropractor that I will have major problems in my later years, that was back in the early 80's. I never suffered from pain so bad, till I attempted a 4 week backpacking trek throughout Sydney and the surrounding area's a year and a half ago with a One Planet Pack full to the brim. Pack weight in excess of 20kg. I had to practically perform my own chiropractor moves to snap the ligaments back in place to help relieve the pain on my hikes. Upper body strength was lacking. First thing I done when I returned home is started to sell all my camping gear and slowly replaced them with lightweight gear, and it's made a huge difference as well as strengthening exercises at the gym. Having stronger back muscles is helping to support my spine and there is now less pressure on my nerve endings.

I lot of hikers bag ultra-light hikers, I know some of the looks I get in the local club here, they think I'm silly, but they have no idea. So, for me to continue what I love very much, means I have to become a ultra-light weight hiker, so be it.

[sweetiepark]

What a resource of knowledge! I feel like I should be able to make an action plan from here. I really want to get into hiking a lot more but I currently dont hike overnight becuase of this issue and the pain it causes me. I am investigating packs this weekend calling. I have an appointment booked with a sports physio next week. My husband said to me last night maybe it's not the hobby for me! Desperately now need to prove him wrong .

[quicky]

I lot of hikers bag ultra-light hikers, I know some of the looks I get in the local club here, they think I'm silly, but they have no idea. So, for me to continue what I love very much, means I have to become a ultra-light weight hiker, so be it.

I'm certainly with you there Phil.
UL is not just about buying lightweight gear...it's about UL philosophy. This can be achieved even with 'not so light' gear...learning better techniques etc. to improve the hiking experience.
Naturally though, when one follows their process to conclusion, most people end up with lighter gear at some stage...or are at least on a path to lighten their overall load and improving technique amidst a balance of preferred gear.
I too have had my share of issues from days gone by (and ongoing)....lumbar disk herniations, thoracic 'issues', sprained ankles, shoulder dislocations, hip labral tears, lig teres tears and so on...
So, like you...I'm compelled to ease the burden to continue with the things that I love...I now have my base pack weight down to 9lbs/4kg...and have never hiked more comfortably, more freely, and for longer without issues/fatigue.
So let them laugh and smirk in the club...cause we'll be laughing at smirking at them later! bwahahaha. <insert facetiousness here>

[andrewbish]

My husband said to me last night maybe it's not the hobby for me! Desperately now need to prove him wrong .

Proving your other half wrong is an excellent reason to continue! Good luck.

[north-north-west]

Beiong left with permanent neck damage from a car accident, I can sympathise. I've been using Aarn packs for all my walking for over two years now, and they're the one set of packs that don't give me trouble.
The problem is that Tim of BackpackingLight here in Melbourne is probably the only person In Australia who really knows how to set them up.

[quicky]

Beiong left with permanent neck damage from a car accident, I can sympathise. I've been using Aarn packs for all my walking for over two years now, and they're the one set of packs that don't give me trouble.
The problem is that Tim of BackpackingLight here in Melbourne is probably the only person In Australia who really knows how to set them up.

+1

[matagi]

Beiong left with permanent neck damage from a car accident, I can sympathise. I've been using Aarn packs for all my walking for over two years now, and they're the one set of packs that don't give me trouble.
The problem is that Tim of BackpackingLight here in Melbourne is probably the only person In Australia who really knows how to set them up.

No, my hubby (in Tasmania) knows how to do it too, but he doesn't work in a store.

FWIW, we have 5 Aarn packs between us, ranging from the Liquid Agility all the way up to the Load Limo. They really are excellent packs.