Du Cane Traverse Questions

[zakbaillie]

Hey guys me and two friends are planning a trip on the DU Cane range and we had a couple of questions regarding the trip.
1. We're looking to climb onto the range from Pine Valley rather than Falling Mountain. Is there any reason why people usually traverse anti-clockwise?
2. Would it be possible to travel from Narcissus to Lake Elysia in one day? Any idea how long?
3. Do we have to pay the exorbitant Overland track fees given the relatively small portion we will be walking?
4. In comparison to the Mt Anne circuit (we've just returned from this circuit) whats the going like?
Any other information would be awesome
Thanks a lot :

[tigercat]

1. you can go clockwise, in fact Parks want you to go clockwise so you walk N to S from Ducane gap to narcissus.
2. 5-6 hrs medium pace
3. no fee

[ollster]

4. In comparison to the Mt Anne circuit (we've just returned from this circuit) whats the going like?

Easier, but obviously it's off track so this can bring it's own issues.

[tasadam]

1. Have been that way as far as the eastern end of Masif before heading down the steep bit onto the ridge that takes you across to Falling Mountain. For various reasons we couldn't proceed so retreated from there - still a great walk, and missed all the scrum we heard about heading down off Falling Mtn to DuCane Gap.
2. Yep, done it before. So long as you pick up the trail, no worries. Would definitely need the early ferry. If you catch the late ferry the night before and stay at Narcissus, even easier.
3. No. See http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 23#p143823
4. Navigating the Notch should see you well to navigating off Masif. PM me if you would like to know more detail on this as discussion on specifics of untracked routes in public is against forum rules.
In short, as you approach the eastern end of Masif (I forget exactly where you see this, but...) you see to the south, a gap in the rocky scree that heads downhill to the north. I climbed down here for a bit of reconnaissance and found that you go up this said notch to find a cliff that is impassable. Further downhill to the south appears to get too rocky, scrubby, and too far offtrack to be viable and we since know it isn't right (so don't make that mistake).
Can't remember how much is already written in guidebooks etc so don't want to say specifics.
Other than this section plus the scrub coming off Falling Mtn that someone else might be able to offer opinion on (as I haven't seen it), I would call the rest of the walk fairly straight-forward compared to the first half of the Anne circuit.

How did you find the Anne circuit? What was the weather like? If the weather was good all the time, what would you have done if it clouded in big-time (so that if you aren't sure, we can offer suggestion - I ask as you will be at altitude for some time)? How much time are you anticipating taking?
Probably other questions that could be asked so as to see you in the best stead possible based on the opinions of other members here.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Here's a good topic

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12009

[stepbystep]

1. By going up Falling first you are doing the off track section when you have the most accurate and predictable forecast and you are walking towards the good stuff so it's always in view. PWS don't want you to do this however.

[north-north-west]

Given that I went from a snowcamp on Falling to Elysia by way of Windy Fridge in one day, it won't be a problem.

Navigationally, I think it would generally be easier to go in via Pine Valley. The only tricky bit then is finding the route down from Massif. I would suggest you scout around a bit without the packs first, so you're sure where you're going. Besides, Massif is a marvellous place to spend a lazy half day exploring or just stuffing around soaking up the views and the wildflowers. Big Gun from the DuCane end is easy, and there are about as many routes from there up Massif as there are walkers to do it.

There's no way to avoid the scrub on Falling, but.

[ILUVSWTAS]

There's no way to avoid the scrub on Falling, but.

It's not really all that scrubby though, a bit scratchy at worst. And its only a very short section.

[ollster]

There's no way to avoid the scrub on Falling, but.

It's only really scrub if you're 4-foot tall.

[zakbaillie]

Ahh cool. thanks a lot guys.
Looks like (because we have to re-rent the epirb - does anyone think its a silly system?) we'll be on the 1200 ferry from cynthia bay, depending on weather and how we're feeling we'll either camp at Pine Valley or up on top at lake elysia. At the moment we're looking at not completing the traverse instead setting up camps at lake elysia and lake helios and running day trips up all the mountains.
So at the moment we've got five nights to play with so if weathers bad we're happy to spend it in the tent. We had pretty superb weather through the whole circuit although when we camped at shelf camp there was a pretty heavy fog so we didnt leave camp until late. So yeah we're aware of the danger/real possibility of bad weather.
Is the track from Narcissus duck boarded - just in terms of covering lots of distance quick.

[tigercat]

We took the midday ferry in and camped above lake Elysia in the Labyrinth around 7 pm. Finding water could be an issue between Massif and Falling.

[stepbystep]

It's a good track, not duckboarded most of the way but can be motored through.

Helios has great camping, Elysia is beautiful but the camping is crap(literally), I pitched near a poo hole... and the ants are a nightmare...

Next time I'm in the area I'll probably be more imaginative about where I camp.

[Azza]

The only tricky bit then is finding the route down from Massif.

From memory there is a cairn marking the top the descent point, but no clearly defined cairned path from there until you get down..
What Tasadam said sounds like more or less the best route down, there is more than one way.

Its a bit of a choose your own adventure, there are couple of rocky ledges, small cliffs which can be avoided, picking a good line helps.

We did it in the reverse and the 3 of us all went different ways, so don't expect any hand holding in terms of cairns to follow. Helps to have good visibility.

Good luck

[north-north-west]

The only tricky bit then is finding the route down from Massif.

From memory there is a cairn marking the top the descent point, but no clearly defined cairned path from there until you get down..

Yes, but the trick is to know where to look for it once you decide to leave the bowl, and which way to go once you reach it. That's a fair sized summit plateau, lots of lovely cliffs, and the most obvious route isn't the one you want to take - mainly because it involves a few awkward little cliffy bits.
I spent the better part of an afternoon just wandering around. Fortunately the weather was perfect by then.

There's no way to avoid the scrub on Falling, but.

It's only really scrub if you're 4-foot tall.

We can't all be giants, and there are times when being built like a wombat helps.

It's not really all that scrubby though, a bit scratchy at worst. And its only a very short section.

(I knew this would happen. Didn't expect it quite so soon, though)
I know it's not PoW standard, but it's still a nuisance.

[tasadam]

I think in the interests of assisting people in what is a recognized walk at the expense of posting something that might not be seen as too favourable in the eyes of some in relation to sharing specific information on walks that you shouldn't be on for your own safety if you aren't experienced enough to figure it out (that was a mouthful)...
Leave the Masif bowl and when you are at the eastern end of the cliffs you see a lower ridge heading east that leads to Castle Crag and Falling Mountain. You have a number of choices.
Straight ahead, turn left, or turn right.
Turn right - covered before - NOT the way. You go a long way down and come to a notch that you climb up to, look through, to discover a huge drop on the other side that might be fun for a rock climber with all the gear, but not for a walker with a pack. Further down may be possible but you would have to go a long way down, then traverse under the cliffs to the north to meet up with the ridge heading east. Lots of work, likely very scrubby, and not the way.
Straight ahead - goes down a very (very) steep bank with rocks, pineapple grass, and many leads that, if taking the wrong one, you may find it very difficult or impossible to climb again, particularly with a pack. We had a go and a large rock I stepped onto gave way and I slid feet first down a steep bank for perhaps 3 or 4 metres, as soon as I made the next shelf I dived to the left and braced for the rock in case it hit me, but it didn't. I look, and it is teetering up the top. I move aside and get my wife to gently push it - she uses one finger with ease and the rock (sort of beachball size but flatter) came tumbling down. Lucky... Not that way...
Several attempts without packs down the pineapple grass / rock embankment ended in vain. We have heard people have come up that way but perhaps it's easier to see and pick a route when at the bottom.

So, Turn left. There is a bit of a valley to the north which does have a cairn there somewhere. We were going to head down this and sidle around the worst of the northern cliffline so as to meet up with the lower ridge, which we think would be the best option, but instead we turned back - half a day was lost due to thick fog.

Some photos that would help.

These are my notes on this photo - does anyone agree / disagree?

Looking down over Big Gun Pass towards Mt Masif

When on the eastern end of the Masif plateau (further east from the summit and summit bowl), you come to a cliff line. Looking east from it, you can see the ridge which is your destination -

destination-east-ridge.JPG (99.37 KiB) Viewed 7827 times

Back off a bit and head north down a gully and this is what you would see -

view-north-gully.JPG (93.25 KiB) Viewed 7827 times

Unless, of course, the clouds are in your face -

north-gully-2.JPG (62.49 KiB) Viewed 7827 times

[north-north-west]

EDIT: On reflection I have decided that the information was too explicit for the public frum. I have no problems providing it to people privately, if they can convince me they have the appropriate experience and attitude.

Cairn marking descent

Once up on the main ridge the route forward is pretty easy to pick, and there is a rough pad in sections. Hard to get lost in decent viz. There were also some pools that still had water when I was there, towards the Falling Mtn end of the ridge.
The climb up onto Falling can be made in a number of places, but the most popular route gets you to the base of another gully that leads up to near the summit plateau. There are some large awkward boulders to negotiate. I made it alone without taking the pack off, so it's doable for almost anyone, but be patient and careful.

[tasadam]

I'll leave it to the mods to decide if this is too much information.

My view is that the information now provided was necessary to avoid confusion.
My concern was that I was quoted earlier

What Tasadam said sounds like more or less the best route down, there is more than one way.

But before that, all I really mentioned was which way not to go. I don't want anyone getting lost up there so I thought the better of two evils would be to spell it out better.
But if other mods / admins disagree and review rule 24, this may all disappear.

[tigercat]

The Ducane circuit is now well publicised through Chapman's book and other sources. I think it is highly appropriate to share the kind of track notes that have been shared regarding a potentially hazardous envirnment.

[zakbaillie]

Firstly, Thank you all very much for the information provided.

I do however feel that our post has not only been misinterpreted, but has raised an important issue within the bushwalkng community.

Our intention in asking the questions originally posted on this thread was to confirm aspects of our own route planning that we were not one hundred percent sure of, drawing on the large volume of knowledge that the members of this forum have accumulated over many years of walking in Tasmania. Under the impression that information sharing for pleasure and safety being one of the primary functions of the site?

Furthermore in regard to experience garnered in Tasmanian conditions, I am unsure of how one goes about amounting experience if not by doing walks that build said experience? In this matter, the provision of information by others more knowledgeable surely serves only to reduce some of the hazards within the walker's control. This I feel is particularly true when referring to those who will walk with or without information being given here or elsewhere; harm reduction in a sense.

I have for some years now enjoyed using this site in a passive manner, however now having finally had the opportunity to walk on this Island and engage actively on this site, I have been somewhat disappointed with the culture of the site, specifically relating to the hierarchical and exclusive nature it at times assumes.

Anyhow I would again like to thank everyone for the info provided and apologise for stirring up such a hotly opinionated topic.

[north-north-west]

... I have been somewhat disappointed with the culture of the site, specifically relating to the hierarchical and exclusive nature it at times assumes. .

Look at it from another point of view: If I provide information which you use to access an area which is beyond your capabilities, and something goes pear-shaped, I am in part responsible for your problems. I don't want that on my conscience. As I do not know you from a bar of soap, I have no way of knowing whether or not you or your companion/s are capable of accessing this area safely. It is therefore in my best interests not to divulge that information.

If the information is posted in public forum, anyone can access it. That leads to issues of both safety And overuse of sensitive areas.

[ILUVSWTAS]

(I knew this would happen. Didn't expect it quite so soon, though)
I know it's not PoW standard, but it's still a nuisance.

No it certainly isnt POW standard, that's not what i meant... for off track in general, it really isnt too bad, I dont know maybe you took a bad line, but my memory of it has me believing you can get through most of it without even touching a plant!

[DaveNoble]

I'm inclined to think that most of the walking along the Du Cane Range is reasonable enough that people who venture there should not need detailed notes. If too much information is available then that could encourage walkers to go there that may not be able to cope if things go wrong - e.g. a spell of bad weather.

My first two trips along the Geryon - Massif - Falling Mtn section were solo, with no notes (except I knew others had been along that way). Climbing out of Big Gun Pass - I tried to follow the skyline to Massif - and got caught out by pinnacles that I could not get past, so had to climb down and around - no major problem. (on later trips - I tend to sidle a bit to the left and climb gradually). Going off Massif, towards Falling Mtn - I tended to follow the ridge crest - and came to a bluff. I had to drop my pack, scout around and find a way down, then go back and get my pack. The route I found was not hard - I could do it with my pack on, and it wasn't far from the skyline. My next trip, I went the same way. This was a daywalk, and it was easy to find a way down without a big pack. If you are going in the reverse direction - then the bluff does look a bit steep - and it was easy to find a bypass route to the west (right as you approach Massif) - around a bit and then up an easy ramp.

Falling Mtn - it does have one steep short section (almost overhanging dolerite boulders) - but not too hard to find a way through. The descent off Falling Mtn - looks hard from Du Cane Gap - but that view is very foreshortened. My advice - head towards the gap and head slightly left to avoid cliffs. The scrubby section is scoparia and pandanni - short and not too bad (easier going down than up). Note - you can also descend from the saddle before Falling Mtn - go under the cliffs to the landslide - through the boulders and then down to Du Cane Gap.

On two trips - I have gone from Massif, to the small peak halfway to Falling Mtn - and then descended to Kiaora. The first time was due to bad weather - we wanted to get off the range fast! The second time was by choice - to save time (we wanted to camp on Ossa that night) - and I took a digital photo of the plains - very useful to find the open parts (button grass) - and link them together to get to the Overland Track (for lunch) - a bit north of Kiaora Hut. The descent is scrubby - but I would not call it too bad.

At various times along the range I have found cairns (ducks) in a few places - and on other trips - none. Best not to expect them. Its a great area - but remember the weather can change very quickly, and its not a great place to be in bad weather or strong winds. You need to be good at scrambling on big dolerite boulders. This is much easier if you have a light pack and are agile. You do find you loose the skin on your fingers from the rough dolerite.

Dave

[north-north-west]

Hey Dave, did you lose this on one of those trips?

My hands handled the rock just fine. My favourite walking pants are slightly stuffed, however.

[pazzar]

I don't remember much in the way of scrub going up from Du Cane Gap to Falling. It was mostly covered in snow when I went though, so it was pretty clear once out of the band of forest. I went around to the right, and then up a series of ledges to get on to the main ridge to the summit. I guess that confirms that there are many different ways up.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Yes Pazzar that's my memory. It's pretty open forest. We had some minor scrambling up near the top to get on to the rim of Falling.

[Graham51]

I've been up from Ducane Gap a few times and never had any real issues with scrub. It's easy enough to pick your way through the band of forest, over logs and large boulders, and then I've always aimed for the point of Falling Mountain and follow the cliffline up. You can find camping at the top of the hill and water is there if you look around - another 100 metres or so on near the edge that looks out over Kiaora.

[Nuts]

... I have been somewhat disappointed with the culture of the site, specifically relating to the hierarchical and exclusive nature it at times assumes. .

Look at it from another point of view: If I provide information which you use to access an area which is beyond your capabilities, and something goes pear-shaped, I am in part responsible for your problems. I don't want that on my conscience. As I do not know you from a bar of soap, I have no way of knowing whether or not you or your companion/s are capable of accessing this area safely. It is therefore in my best interests not to divulge that information.

If the information is posted in public forum, anyone can access it. That leads to issues of both safety And overuse of sensitive areas.

Yes! And we have (forum) rules in place that take (took?) this to another level for those that can't help themselves (for whatever reason..) I'm not aware of any hierarchy, even if its the park service asking for areas to be left off guidebooks they are obviously ignored and the result assumed as the new level of 'recognised' walk. Personally I think that snubbing concerns for safety and impact is pretty ignorant (perhaps arrogant) but then effectively this is for the 'community' to decide. That and the fact that there is only so much *&%$#! one can push up hill, overall pretty disillusioning imo.

[north-north-west]

... so it was pretty clear once out of the band of forest. .

Yes. The scrub is at its worst under the trees. It's only a short section, but annoying - not that hard, not that bad, just annoying.
I actually found an easier line when I was running away from the bad weather after my first attempt at the circuit but, in the interest of being a selfish bugger who doesn't want too many peop[le tramp[l;ing all over it, I'll keep it to myself . . .

[norts]

I found that billy on the 2nd Jan and put it up in the scoparia or was that earlier and I just replaced it?

Roger

[north-north-west]

2nd Jan? Definitely before me. Although not by much.