Tarkine mining

[gayet]

Announced this morning

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-08/b ... ng/4507964

Get in to see it before its lost.

[wander]

Pretty interesting that is was clearly stated that jobs were deciding factor over keeping the environment.

[Hallu]

I love the sentence "would have cost potential mining jobs.". Those jobs don't even exist yet, but just in case, no mining ban. It's the same stupid thing in Queensland : it would be insanely expensive to fully exploit the mining potential of the Cape York Peninsula, but just in case Australia becomes the world's first economy, it's not a National Park...

That Burke guy plainly lacks guts. Maybe this guy should remember a certain Jimmy Carter, amongst the most hated American presidents of all time, and yet he saved a huge chunk of Alaskan wilderness by setting it aside with the Antiquities Act (all Alaskans were ready to shoot him after this...), and he managed to resolve the hostage crisis in Iran without a single shed of blood (Argo *&%$#! yourself)... Burke will be remembered as the guy who did nothing because he was afraid to upset miners. Well that's just about everybody in the Australian government right now anyway... The right move would have been to come up with a plan in order to both protect the Tarkine and create jobs, simply with tourism. Because those jobs last forever, whereas mining jobs by definition don't... but I guess it's easier to sit back and do squat.

Oh and by the way what's the unemployment rate in Australia ? A ridiculously low 5 %, about 6 or 7 % in Tasmania... It's 11 % in Europe, 8/9 % in the US. So stop using the "huge Tasmanian unemployment rate" as an excuse, especially when a lot of mining jobs are filled by immigrants anyway... Data in NSW, QLD and WA show more than half of those jobs are filled by immigrants for lack of miners in Australia. So if Tasmania follows the same trend, it's not even 1000 jobs we're talking about, it's less than half that... How about promoting tourism where jobs will be filled by locals knowing, loving and protecting the area ?

[stepbystep]

Pretty interesting that is was clearly stated that jobs were deciding factor over keeping the environment.

Standard argument, this is pretty sad. Both state and federal governments are very desperate at the moment, not a good environment for clear decision making.
I'm heading up for my 5th visit to the area in the last 8 months soon. Think I'll spend some time exploring with this in mind...

[ollster]

create jobs, simply with tourism. Because those jobs last forever, whereas mining jobs by definition don't...
...
Oh and by the way what's the unemployment rate in Australia ? A ridiculously low 5 %, about 6 or 7 % in Tasmania...

Not saying anything you've written is wrong, but tourism is quite a fickle creature. At best it's seasonal, at worst it can flare up and then peter out due to fads.

Also, the unemployment rate isn't really a good guide to Tasmania's employment health. Regardless of the current unemployment rate in Tas (7.3%), the number of full time positions is decreasing (according to the Mercury...). Also regardless of the rate being only a few % higher than the national average IIRC around 35% of Tasmanians list welfare as their primary source of income, which cannot be a healthy sign (might be different now, but probably not a heck of a lot). You could infer from that that the majority of Tasmanians who are employed are only employed on part-time/casual/low pay. No I can't find stats in the 2 mins I bothered to look, so there is a bit of supposition in there.

But yeah, cutting things down or tearing stuff out of the ground isn't a great long term solution. Better education and skilling is. We're supposed to be a first world economy, IMO things like the NBN will help ensure we can gain an international advantage in this area. Tearing up our natural heritage will only provide a short term gain.

[Hallu]

Yeah I agree winter tourism is the tricky part. In Europe, it works because of skiing and history. Cold weather and no sun ? Just go to museums, castles, historical buildings. Or go skiing in the Alps and the Pyrénées. But nobody's gonna visit Tasmania only for its cities, so it may be time to develop winter activities. I'm not thinking ski resorts, but more like Alpine guided walking, aboriginal cultural activities. After all, wet season tourism is starting to pick up in the tropical regions of Australia : people come to see the huge storms, the lush green, the flooded areas and massive waterfalls.

But of course you can't expect people working in tourism to know about/do everything in order to work all year. In France, if you're in tourism, you work during your own peak season, and get unemployment checks adapted to your status the rest of the year (meaning you get the checks automatically, no questions asked, and at a better rate than if you were simply unemployed). Isn't there the same thing in Australia ? Of course it's not a perfect system, as you need to work a certain number of hours to get the checks, and when the economy is bad, the government simply raises the quota... But correct me if I'm wrong, Australian economy isn't bad, and it would be better if tourism had a federal system, so it would give subventions to every tourism worker in every state. This would avoid the "yeah but Tasmania isn't rich and can't afford to do that" while Australia as a nation can. The problem is even national parks aren't national at all, so it's probably a dead end... We need a strong government, a strong PM who's gonna say "*&%$#! it, let's finally have a national park system, a national tourism system, and let's create an Australia Antiquities Act after the American model".

[ryantmalone]

Pretty interesting that is was clearly stated that jobs were deciding factor over keeping the environment.

Standard argument, this is pretty sad. Both state and federal governments are very desperate at the moment, not a good environment for clear decision making.
I'm heading up for my 5th visit to the area in the last 8 months soon. Think I'll spend some time exploring with this in mind...

LOL I love that the selling point, in a NON mining state, was "Jobs".

Why is it that Tasmania seems to think that jobs are only created by destroying the environment?

[ILUVSWTAS]

Why is it that Tasmania seems to think that jobs are only created by destroying the environment?

So what's the answer then RyanMalone?

[ryantmalone]

Why is it that Tasmania seems to think that jobs are only created by destroying the environment?

So what's the answer then RyanMalone?

I dunno... there's a reason I never became a politician.

[photohiker]

GetUp has started a campaign about it:

http://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/save- ... ge-listing

[taswegian]

One of the problems (IMO) is while there are 'natural resources' then They Shalt Be Exploited Unto Extinction.

Working in the development area it becomes very obvious the nature of various types of developers.
There are those who:
Want to do the right thing for the future of the planet and does it well, even exceeding requirements of sound planning and development. They are in the minority.
Who do it because it ticks off the brownie points needed to get them across the line, but after that they don't give a country ...
Who don't give a whatever and just bluster through reluctantly taking the decision handed down and then when all the fanfare dies down do what they can get away with by way of a relaxation of certain conditions.

Unfortunately that probably sums up most of our developers here.

What grieves me is the way people espouse the virtues of a wonderland we live in but pay lip service to its welfare.

Another aspect I encounter is the seemingly rebuttal of any new and exciting and innovative ideas that well meaning and well educated people put forward and are based on good science and practicality to match.
Why do they say Tasmanian's have 2 heads? I often wonder if they have 1/2 a head.
(I'm Tasmanian through and through. Thought I'd best say that before I get told to go back to where I came from and don't tell us Tasmanians how to run our lives.)

[corvus]

Can anyone tell me how will we know that the proposed Mine in the so called "Tarkine" will be evident to those of us who actually visit this area ? looking at my maps the Nelson River area is well serviced by roads and not a "wilderness area" as I understand it .
Yes we do do need to look after our Land but IMHO not at the cost to those who need to work and live in the area and please do not quote tourism as the "magic bullet" (just look at the WCWR) as an example ,nice for those of you in full time employment to pontificate as to how we "save the Planet( insert Tasmania)" but I believe that we need to look after us (humans) first and perhaps then look at so called Wilderness.
I have no personal Axe to grind being a retiree with a love of bushwalking and our Tasmanian Wonderland but saddened to see some of our best needing to leave the State to look for employment that cannot be provided by "wilderness walks /experiences" here .

corvus

[Nuts]

Two heads equal two minds T/W
An old friend, nature lover, experienced walker lives in Montagu. He had worked in mining for many years but gave it up to move home to Tas. he Did have a job with Mcains.. I guess he is expected to move away again. I'm sure we would all do that for our local environmental cause?

(Incidently, he was also a tour guide but there just isn't enough work in it for him)

[stepbystep]

Can anyone tell me how will we know that the proposed Mine in the so called "Tarkine" will be evident to those of us who actually visit this area ? looking at my maps the Nelson River area is well serviced by roads and not a "wilderness area" as I understand it .
Yes we do do need to look after our Land but IMHO not at the cost to those who need to work and live in the area and please do not quote tourism as the "magic bullet" (just look at the WCWR) as an example ,nice for those of you in full time employment to pontificate as to how we "save the Planet( insert Tasmania)" but I believe that we need to look after us (humans) first and perhaps then look at so called Wilderness.
I have no personal Axe to grind being a retiree with a love of bushwalking and our Tasmanian Wonderland but saddened to see some of our best needing to leave the State to look for employment that cannot be provided by "wilderness walks /experiences" here .

corvus

Hi Corvus,

Nelson River/Rebecca Creek area. Have you been there? Ever been to Rebecca Lagoon?

You're a bit of a twitcher if I'm correct. Go check it out. The lagoon is abundant with birdlife and a very rare ecosystem tucked in behind the dunes. No wonder there are so many aboriginal sites around the lagoon and the early cattlemen prized the area above all others. I've spent some time there and observed and filmed many species.

Hmmmm, so does an area have to be pristine to be important? Or can we recognise that what is there is important and exploit it's 'resource' in a different way? Is my question to you.

[Nuts]

Hey, got any pics sbs?

[stepbystep]

Hey, got any pics sbs?

Sure, I was a bit busy telling the cameraman what I wanted but got a few snaps away.

[taswegian]

This is long - not sure it could be condensed.

I recently spent a month on Oahu.
An island that would fit inside the Kentish Muncipality.
No mining, forestry, little room for agricultural production and yet that island exists and thrives.
Oahu recylces everything and generates electricity from waste.

Singapore - one of the tiniest and most densely populated areas and yet its economy is up there with the best.

I'm not suggesting we don't need to mine or cut trees or produce agricultural products but what I do suggest is the lack of willingness to think outside the box.
Oustide the box thinking generates jobs, because thinking differently requires new and innovative production that don't have to come from China or other countries.
Then and only then we may see different values placed on different things.

In Oahu I read the history and its develpoment since 'civilised' man took control. And of what was lost never to be seen again.
I stood in an area where the small piece of wood I gazed at was the last surviving section of a tree, that once lived to be thousands of years old, and now was gone. Gone because back then they didn't have the foresight to see the inevitable.

For forty years I've read countless early surveys of Tasmania, where each survey, dating back to the 1840's, stated the type of land, its vegetation, water and mineral bearing qualities.
Each time I read those early surveys I look and see what is the lands current state, and visions of those early pioneering days swim through the mind.
Heavily timbered, covered in gum, stringy bark, Sassafras, Blackwood and Myrtle, Musk and Dogwood. Stony and well watered. No mineral bearing deposits. Value 10/- ($1) per acre

We don't live in the past but I can live in the future - now, the present future and envisage what life at the current rate will be like if we continue on our merry path.

I've toiled on Sarah Island (not as in inmate ) and marvelled at that site.
Blackwoods now grow amongst the ruins. Some go straight up, reaching for the sky, too large to wrap the arms around.
The particular tree I have in mind would make fabulous boards and yet it had only lived 90+ years.
Landscapes do recover, albeit slowly.

But what the future landscape will look like will probably depend on the younger ages, typical of many that makeup this Forum.
Unfortunately many won't ever experience, other than looking at images, what it once was like and while that's not a bad thing in iteself it can lead to what one never knew one never laments.

I say we can have jobs, we can have quality air and water and we certainly have the capability to make it happen.
Just depends on whether we care enough about things and those times we will never see because of our temperary life here on earth.
But there are the followers that look to the dads and the g'pas and in times will ask, like we do now, 'What were those people thinking of...'

Do we look at an area and say there are no suitable trees for Eagles to nest and so cut down every large tree that in 25-35± years would be habitat for our majestic birds, or would we have that foresight and desire for it to happen. When we can watch in awe those graceful winged creatures aloft in sky because we made it happen.

Unfortunately we have decision makers that influence the direction Australia/ Tasmania goes that are short term survivors bereft of innovation and fresh ideas and foresight, whose interest number one is their own (short term) popularity, read survival.

We can and should do better.

[taswegian]

Hmmmm, so does an area have to be pristine to be important? Or can we recognise that what is there is important and exploit it's 'resource' in a different way? Is my question to you.

That is just so relevant SBS - 'a different way'

I'm sure we would all do that for our local environmental cause?

Nuts, with greatest respect. That is the sort of emotive comment that can deny the innovative a place in todays workplace.
We never did it that way, or I can only do whatever. type stuff.
I was made redundant once. So I know what thats like to be turned out to pasture.
I made a choice, forged ahead and survived. I am still extremely busy doing what I love. Yes you could say I'm lucky, but I could have thrown in the towel and lived off the land as supplied courtesy of the social welfare. We are fortunate to have such a system.

[corvus]

Can anyone tell me how will we know that the proposed Mine in the so called "Tarkine" will be evident to those of us who actually visit this area ? looking at my maps the Nelson River area is well serviced by roads and not a "wilderness area" as I understand it .
Yes we do do need to look after our Land but IMHO not at the cost to those who need to work and live in the area and please do not quote tourism as the "magic bullet" (just look at the WCWR) as an example ,nice for those of you in full time employment to pontificate as to how we "save the Planet( insert Tasmania)" but I believe that we need to look after us (humans) first and perhaps then look at so called Wilderness.
I have no personal Axe to grind being a retiree with a love of bushwalking and our Tasmanian Wonderland but saddened to see some of our best needing to leave the State to look for employment that cannot be provided by "wilderness walks /experiences" here .

corvus

Hi Corvus,

Nelson River/Rebecca Creek area. Have you been there? Ever been to Rebecca Lagoon?

You're a bit of a twitcher if I'm correct. Go check it out. The lagoon is abundant with birdlife and a very rare ecosystem tucked in behind the dunes. No wonder there are so many aboriginal sites around the lagoon and the early cattlemen prized the area above all others. I've spent some time there and observed and filmed many species.

Hmmmm, so does an area have to be pristine to be important? Or can we recognise that what is there is important and exploit it's 'resource' in a different way? Is my question to you.

G'day sbs,
No!
However my question to you is to you is the proposed mine on said Lagoon ? and did you use the C214 road to get there and of course the area does not need to be pristine to be important , just so long as some understand that we really need a balance that it is more attuned to employment rather than exclusion of good manual skilled workers.
May be a short term fix but the Bush will come back without or help
corvus

[Chris]

Despite being a long-term Greenie who was hooked by the area now known as the Tarkine when introduced to it in 1981, and having been going there regularly since then, I was actually relieved by Tony Burke's decision.

Much as I would like to see all of this area preserved, we cannot ignore the fact that a deep malaise is developing in Tasmania.The unemployment figures do not tell the whole story, as so many are leaving the state to find work. We rate lower than the other states on almost all social and economic scales, and these deficits cannot improve without additional and diverse opportunities for employment. Tourism is important but will always be seasonal to some extent, and is currently going backwards. Yes, I understand the arguments about few jobs being created due to FIFO workers, and the environmental damage which may be caused, but hope that with sufficiently strict environmental conditions there will be a net gain to the state.

The conservationist movement must sometimes compromise, as failure to do so alienates those who support many of the conservationist principles. The immediately negative reaction to almost any new proposal is so divisive, which contributes to the sadly growing malaise.

I profoundly hope that the threatened major protests do not eventuate, as they risk worsening the sad state of our wonderful State.

[stepbystep]

However my question to you is to you is the proposed mine on said Lagoon ? and did you use the C214 road to get there...

No it isn't on the lagoon, but this is where any environmental spill from an overflowed tailings dam will end up, check it out on GE, not far as the crow flies huh?

Yes and no the C214 cuts inland from Couta Rocks turnoff. South from there I used the Temma Road. The Drovers Hut and stockyards are also well worth checking out and if you do go there I can tell you of some other very interesting places to visit.

Despite being a long-term Greenie who was hooked by the area now known as the Tarkine when introduced to it in 1981, and having been going there regularly since then, I was actually relieved by Tony Burke's decision.

I profoundly hope that the threatened major protests do not eventuate, as they risk worsening the sad state of our wonderful State.

Chris, what do you think will be profoundly accomplished by allowing mining in this area?

I've been profoundly affected by traveling and working in this area, and will be profoundly disappointed if the area is degraded unnecessarily, thereby reducing my opportunities to work there again.

Don't lose the faith because of the never ending forestry debacle. This is an important place in so many ways and by the way I have no issue with mining, I drive a bigarse car, but for *&^%$# sake what is to be gained out of this proposal?

[Chris]

Chris, what do you think will be profoundly accomplished by allowing mining in this area?

Jobs, royalties, and maybe a trace of reconciliation if there can be some agreement that not everything precious can be saved.

Don't lose the faith because of the never ending forestry debacle.

I've been profoundly affected by traveling and working in this area, and will be profoundly disappointed if the area is degraded unnecessarily, thereby reducing my opportunities to work there again.

Not losing faith because of this. I share your feelings of disappointment that some wonderful areas may be damaged lost, and maybe I am inconsistent in my view that the proposed pulp mill is non-negotiable.

Probably 10 years ago I spoke to Christine Milne about my concern that the Green pollies didn't seem to be able to compromise. She assured me that they compromised a great deal more than is perceived, as conflict was more news-worthy than agreement, but I'm not totally convinced.

I'm pretty sure I'll still be voting green at the next elections and helping with the campaign as usual, but with mixed feelings

[Hallu]

Can anyone tell me how will we know that the proposed Mine in the so called "Tarkine" will be evident to those of us who actually visit this area ? looking at my maps the Nelson River area is well serviced by roads and not a "wilderness area" as I understand it .
Yes we do do need to look after our Land but IMHO not at the cost to those who need to work and live in the area and please do not quote tourism as the "magic bullet" (just look at the WCWR) as an example ,nice for those of you in full time employment to pontificate as to how we "save the Planet( insert Tasmania)" but I believe that we need to look after us (humans) first and perhaps then look at so called Wilderness.
I have no personal Axe to grind being a retiree with a love of bushwalking and our Tasmanian Wonderland but saddened to see some of our best needing to leave the State to look for employment that cannot be provided by "wilderness walks /experiences" here .

corvus

No first we need to look to the future of our children, not ours. And this future isn't compatible with stupid decisions like this. Is there only mining in this country ? Tasmania has an immense potential to become the food destination of Australia, not only a tourism hotspot, and yet it isn't. Best cheeses in the country, amongst the best fruits/vegetables. The agriculture is there, the restaurants and clients aren't. But for this, as many said, we need dynamism and innovation. Besides, a region is growing economically when it creates tertiary jobs, like tourism, telecommunication, IT etc... How is mining the answer ? How can you keep Tasmanian bright people in Tasmania if the only option they have is mining ? Measures need to be taken to attract and keep brilliant minds in the state, to facilitate the creation of new companies (and NOT mining one or logging ones). Maybe first Tasmania should get a new mentality and be more open to the world, as someone said.

[photohiker]

Apart from my disappointment in this decision and the likely wreckage it will cause to the Tarkine, I'm amazed by this:

Mr Burke has rejected the Australian Heritage Council's advice to list more than 400,000 hectares of the Tarkine on the National Heritage Register.
[..]
Mr Burke says it would have been "disastrous" for potential mining jobs in the area if he had followed the council's advice.

(ABC News)

Why does the Federal Environment Minister quote 'jobs' as the primary reason for his decision? I can understand that jobs may be a factor in a decision, but definitely from an environment point of view they should be way down the list.

Isn't the issue about whether the area is worth preserving on environmental grounds, not whether there is a potential for jobs that don't exist yet?

[Haydynb]

Can anyone tell me how will we know that the proposed Mine in the so called "Tarkine" will be evident to those of us who actually visit this area ? looking at my maps the Nelson River area is well serviced by roads and not a "wilderness area" as I understand it .
Yes we do do need to look after our Land but IMHO not at the cost to those who need to work and live in the area and please do not quote tourism as the "magic bullet" (just look at the WCWR) as an example ,nice for those of you in full time employment to pontificate as to how we "save the Planet( insert Tasmania)" but I believe that we need to look after us (humans) first and perhaps then look at so called Wilderness.
I have no personal Axe to grind being a retiree with a love of bushwalking and our Tasmanian Wonderland but saddened to see some of our best needing to leave the State to look for employment that cannot be provided by "wilderness walks /experiences" here .

corvus

Corvus

Nicely put. As a father with 3 young kids, tasmanian through and through, my biggest concern is the future of my kids. I dont want my kids to be forced to move to the large island to find work.
Clearly we need to look after special areas as best we can but we also need a balance. The green among us would have everything locked up for a select few who do bushwalk to see and enjoy and as such no balance. Im sorry, I love the bush, I enjoy walking in it but we also need to provide opportunities for our future generations and investment in mining is one of those opportunities(of course we need to do it as environmentally well as possible). Just my 2 cents worth...

[Haydynb]

Can anyone tell me how will we know that the proposed Mine in the so called "Tarkine" will be evident to those of us who actually visit this area ? looking at my maps the Nelson River area is well serviced by roads and not a "wilderness area" as I understand it .
Yes we do do need to look after our Land but IMHO not at the cost to those who need to work and live in the area and please do not quote tourism as the "magic bullet" (just look at the WCWR) as an example ,nice for those of you in full time employment to pontificate as to how we "save the Planet( insert Tasmania)" but I believe that we need to look after us (humans) first and perhaps then look at so called Wilderness.
I have no personal Axe to grind being a retiree with a love of bushwalking and our Tasmanian Wonderland but saddened to see some of our best needing to leave the State to look for employment that cannot be provided by "wilderness walks /experiences" here .

corvus

No first we need to look to the future of our children, not ours. And this future isn't compatible with stupid decisions like this. Is there only mining in this country ? Tasmania has an immense potential to become the food destination of Australia, not only a tourism hotspot, and yet it isn't. Best cheeses in the country, amongst the best fruits/vegetables. The agriculture is there, the restaurants and clients aren't. But for this, as many said, we need dynamism and innovation. Besides, a region is growing economically when it creates tertiary jobs, like tourism, telecommunication, IT etc... How is mining the answer ? How can you keep Tasmanian bright people in Tasmania if the only option they have is mining ? Measures need to be taken to attract and keep brilliant minds in the state, to facilitate the creation of new companies (and NOT mining one or logging ones). Maybe first Tasmania should get a new mentality and be more open to the world, as someone said.

I dont think mining is "the" answer,I would suggest that its part of the answer...you are right, agriculture is definitely something we should push and develop, as is tourism, I suspect we will not survive on those alone...we cant even keep a world class railway open..that says something about our tourism potential I guess...

[corvus]

Of those commenting on this post how many have actually been there ? a question from SBS as to whether I had visited Rebecca Lagoon (to which I said no ) prompted me to dig out the maps I used in the late seventies and lo and behold I had been there just forgot the name been all the way from Arthur River to Balfour and on to Pieman Heads and from the south Trial Harbour to Pieman Heads so I have seen an area of the so called Tarkine at first hand albeit some 30 plus years ago and I believe that we will not even notice that there is a mine there other than better road access.
As to Devil road kill perhaps the mine owners could employ someone to do a daily clean up of any other wild life carcasses on their access road?
corvus

[stepbystep]

Hey Corvus
To me it's not about one mine it's about the potential for many mines. A trip 30 years ago? Perhaps it's time to re visit with fresh eyes?

The best bits are South of Temma and a few other 'secret' spots. One visit is nowhere near enough, I've had many and I'm craving manyore

[corvus]

G'day sbs,
Did actually spend many days down there and as stated in a previous post did get down to the Pieman (and up from Trial Harbour) and yes I do need to get back there however I prefer Mountains to coast land today
corvus

[gayet]

Rebecca Lagoon is along the coastal strip, yes inland from the beach but not far. At least some of that coastal strip is being "protected" but the Tarkine covers a vastly larger area than that. It is the inland areas that are also in danger from mining, and if they are damaged the flow-on is enormous.

Please consider the entire impact of open cut mining - its not just the hole in the ground or the roads to get there, it's the overburden dumps and the tailings dumps, it's the clearing of areas to construct the infrastructure to manage the machinery, it's the impact on water tables and water flow, it's the dust that clogs everything and settles on all vegetation over large areas and muddies streams and rivers, it's the every little action taken to build and run a mine that has an impact. Have a look at an open cut mine site in operation and assess the damage to the surrounding areas, overlay that on the Tarkine and you have a better picture.

The land doesn't recover to its original state once the hole is filled in. It is frequently useless for any other purpose and far from pretty, despite any "rehabilitation" requirements.

And all that for a comparatively few short term jobs for an ever increasing population that can't be supported with respect for the rest of a living planet?

And I have seen and lived around open cut mines and worked on "rehabilitated"tailings dumps.