Recommendations for waterproof jaket

[kirip]

Hi, I live in NZ and am gearing up to do the Milford at Easter, but have little experience with hiking equipment.
There are a couple of sales on at the moment and I am looking for feedback on some of the options for a water proof jacket for hiking, or any recommendations in the price range (I have listed NZ$ not AU$). I have mainly been looking Mountain Designs, Bivouac, MacPac and Kathmandu as these have stores locally.

Mountain designs (Gore-tex)
Monsoon $199.96
Cumulus $239.95
Flash Active $279.96
Cirrus 12 $319.96

MacPac (Event)
Hollyford $329.95
Zealot $329.95

Thanks

[wayno]

get something with pit zips or vented pockets.... you could get extremely damp if you don't.... macpac dont have either on their models..

[stuey69]

Mountain designs (Gore-tex)
Monsoon $199.96
Cumulus $239.95
Flash Active $279.96
Cirrus 12 $319.96
MacPac (Event)
Hollyford $329.95
Zealot $329.95

Of the ones you mentioned, the Cirrus at least has pit zips (which are a must), however, I wouldn't go for any of those you mentioned.
Pay a bit more and get something good.
You mentioned Bivouac, check their site and jackets like the Arc'teryx Alpha SV Pro Shell or Outdoor Research Enigma.
The Enigma is similar to the Furio I have. A 2 layer jacket with Pro-Shell across the shoulders and zips from the bicep area all the way through, which means they could be a virtual poncho.
The Alpha SV is straight up 3 layer Pro Shell.
Both are $499.
My thoughts anyway.

[wayno]

alpha sv pro is overkill if you're doing tracks like the milford and horrendously expensive esp for anyone on a budget..
it was made for climbers to stand up to rock abrasion.... not for trampers

[stuey69]

Who's to say she won't do something heavier later, and anyway I mainly mentioned it because it's marked down from $899 to $499.
So which jacket on the list mentioned would you opt for ?

[wayno]

cirrus, but +1 for outdoor research jackets...
the alpha material is stiffer than most and i dont think it packs down well into your pack compared to other fabrics. its designed for situations when you're going to be wearing it all the time... , its for mountaineering and bush bashing in winter....

[wayno]

this is a good price, three layer shell lasts better than a two layer like the enigma
http://www.bivouac.co.nz/outdoor-resear ... acket.html

bluegum mic raved about the outdoor research aspire jacket http://www.bivouac.co.nz/clothing/women ... acket.html

[Hallu]

Well if you don't know anything about hiking equipment maybe the first question you must ask yourself is : do you want a light hardshell jacket that will go over an insulated jacket (layering) or do you want a waterproof insulated jacket so you don't need two jackets ? For the latter option, you can choose the most water repellent jackets from here : http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Insulated ... ns-Reviews such as the Atom SV. A hardshell jacket will be more waterproof, but if you need to buy two jackets, it can get quite expensive. The Atom SV is less expensive than 2 jackets, but I don't know if it would sustain hours of downpour, and I'm not sure if you could find it in NZ (the LT version is lighter).

[wayno]

you often dont need that much insulation under your rainshell in nz. it might not be that hot here but it is only like a freezer for a limited period during the year....

[kirip]

Thanks for all the suggestions. My figuring was I would probably get a light hardshell jacket to wear over other layers rather than an insulated jacket.
Think I will head into bivouac over the weekend for a nosy. Sounds like a few of the outdoor research models might be good options

[wayno]

lookout for the discounted section at the bivouac stores seperate from the rest of their range, theres usually rainshells on special in store

[stuey69]

this is a good price, three layer shell lasts better than a two layer like the enigma
http://www.bivouac.co.nz/outdoor-resear ... acket.html

bluegum mic raved about the outdoor research aspire jacket http://www.bivouac.co.nz/clothing/women ... acket.html

I agree, $NZ399 is a good price but you should be able to get the Aspire delivered from the States for about $NZ275 at the moment.

[blacksheep]

Pitzips are a solution to a problem direct venting doesn't have. Because most waterproof fabrics use polyurethane (PU), sweat condenses inside the jacket and humidity and temperature builds up. That is why pit zips exist. Fabrics that allow moisture vapour to pass through without condensing ( ie. Direct venting) dont feel as hot and clammy, and outsold aren't needed ( ever needed a pit zip in a t shirt? A fleece? ) eVent fabric let's sweat exist 2-3 times faster than Gore-tex, and does so in a way less dependant on external to internal gradients. ( wayno posted a graph showing this in a recent rainwear discussion).
I am happy to help out with any tech questions you may have on macpac fabrics, and products. Campbell@macpac.co.nz

Cam.

(Ps..sales start next week..)

[wayno]

i've usd macpac event jackets and ended up swimming in sweat in cool weather... and others on this site have found the same experience
i wouldnt go near using a jacket without pit zips or vented pockets for my main storm shell
the arcteryx brand are extremely well made and have good warranties, but you'll be paying for them, that sv is a good price. but just bear in mind the comments, like how well will it pack down and do you really want to pay $500 for a coat...
well made jackets will have invisible stitching hidden from the outside to avoid damage, and a high stitch count, arcteryx are about 20 i think, as high as it gets, less likely to fail. they use the absolute best materials no cost spared. fit well. last....
outdoor research are well made but more reasonable on price...

[blacksheep]

Wayno, You must be a very sweaty man. I can't imagine " swimming" in sweat..wow.

I can't believe how much better eVent works. Even cycling and running the fabric delivers..
Kirip, ask around..talk to ultimate hikes, hiking nz, hollyford guides, search and rescue for some opinion as they have trialled these products back to back with other options. They chose ours.

[wayno]

one new macpac resolution jacket at the end of the milford track on a day of constant rain and cool weather, had the hood up all day and i was soaked through with sweat... convinced me to dump it for a jacket with pit zips .. and i've never had the same problems with sweat again... hte fabric is supposed to be DWR treated to repel water to help breathability but it didnt do that at all. .
i've been a lot drier in less breathable jackets because of pit zips

[nq111]

I think this discussion is heading the same way as the other thread!

Fact: You can overload anything with enough sweating, even a polyester runner's t-shirt.

Fact: eVent by the data and annecdotal evidence is significantly more breathable than older goretex (newer goretex and other alternatives i do not know). It also lets some air directly through (e.g. eVent ended drysacks).

Fact: Pitzips, all else being equal, will improve breathability.

How to arrange the above facts to get to a jacket that one is comfortable enough with I will leave to each individual!

[wayno]

I think this discussion is heading the same way as the other thread!

Fact: You can overload anything with enough sweating, even a polyester runner's t-shirt.

Fact: eVent by the data and annecdotal evidence is significantly more breathable than older goretex (newer goretex and other alternatives i do not know). It also lets some air directly through (e.g. eVent ended drysacks).

Fact: Pitzips, all else being equal, will improve breathability.

How to arrange the above facts to get to a jacket that one is comfortable enough with I will leave to each individual!

great summary
+1 and amen

[kirip]

Will also check out the arcteryx sv but think it might be a bit bulky. Does anyone have any opinions on the cheaper/lighter arcteryx jackets
ie
http://www.bivouac.co.nz/clothing/women ... olour.html
http://www.bivouac.co.nz/clothing/women ... 20642.html

[wayno]

the bottom one is proshell 3 layer, will last better than the membrane on the top one which is two layer which will be packlight.
the lighter you go the more care you have to take generally, ie, dont expect the to stand up to bush bashing if you ever look at doing trips like that, or scraping against hard objects generally the thin jackets don't stand up as well.. but they arent totally fragile you can still get years of use from jackets like these... arcteryx are known for top quality.... if you are doing a great amount of overnight tramps in cold and or wet weather, the material can wear from friction and pressure between pack and jacket

[wayno]

i only see mention of pit zips for the bottom link, none for the top.

[norts]

I disagree Blacksheep, you need pit zips, all these breathable fabrics work ok when clean,Event especially needs to be kept clean, but on a multi day walk with a bit of mud, the breathability goes down hill very fast, that's when the pit zips come in handy.
I now use a Montane Superfly Xt. Event material with pit zips. So Montane thought the event still needs pit zips.

Roger

[matagi]

Pitzips are a solution to a problem direct venting doesn't have. Because most waterproof fabrics use polyurethane (PU), sweat condenses inside the jacket and humidity and temperature builds up. That is why pit zips exist. Fabrics that allow moisture vapour to pass through without condensing ( ie. Direct venting) dont feel as hot and clammy, and outsold aren't needed ( ever needed a pit zip in a t shirt? A fleece? ) eVent fabric let's sweat exist 2-3 times faster than Gore-tex, and does so in a way less dependant on external to internal gradients. ( wayno posted a graph showing this in a recent rainwear discussion).
I am happy to help out with any tech questions you may have on macpac fabrics, and products. Campbell@macpac.co.nz

Cam.

(Ps..sales start next week..)

So Cam, why does the Prophet have pit zips? It is eVent and it doesn't have a polyurethane liner (at least not mentioned under product specs).

[frenchy_84]

I now use a Montane Superfly Xt. Event material with pit zips. So Montane thought the event still needs pit zips.

I got one too and I like it

[magichat]

My Macpac Event jacket has pit zips.. . It keeps me dry ish when it rains and I quite like it.

But I probably was just as happy with my old Peter Storm jacket to be honest. And that didn't take up anywhere a much space in my pack. But my new jacket looks cooler I suppose.

I'm just a newbie to all the new fangled gear but I don't think there's any right answer to your question. Try stuff out and eventually you'll find what works for you.... Looking back the money spent on the uber techy jacket wasn't the best ever buy but learning that is part of the journey and I personally don't regret it too much....

[Hallu]

If event were such a miracle, nobody would manufacture gore-tex clothing anymore.

[sthughes]

eVent fabric let's sweat exist 2-3 times faster than Gore-tex

Lol, that's exactly what I found to be the case with my Hollyford jacket! Hence it's GTX for me these days

[wayno]

its not just dirt that affects event, its the oil from your body that clogs it up,,, and ideally it needs washing in detergent, (ideally non aromatic detergent or specialist detergent) to get the breathability back.... event has its advantages and disadvantages. i like event in a stormshell only when it has pit zips or vented pockets or core vents
i do have a lightweight event shell without venting but i only use that for days where i'm not likely to have the jacket on for long periods, and i want a small light jacket that packs down small, and its a 2.5 layer , more breathable than the normal 3 layer event

[blacksheep]

Pitzips are a solution to a problem direct venting doesn't have. Because most waterproof fabrics use polyurethane (PU), sweat condenses inside the jacket and humidity and temperature builds up. That is why pit zips exist. Fabrics that allow moisture vapour to pass through without condensing ( ie. Direct venting) dont feel as hot and clammy, and outsold aren't needed ( ever needed a pit zip in a t shirt? A fleece? ) eVent fabric let's sweat exist 2-3 times faster than Gore-tex, and does so in a way less dependant on external to internal gradients. ( wayno posted a graph showing this in a recent rainwear discussion).
I am happy to help out with any tech questions you may have on macpac fabrics, and products. Campbell@macpac.co.nz

Cam.

(Ps..sales start next week..)

So Cam, why does the Prophet have pit zips? It is eVent and it doesn't have a polyurethane liner (at least not mentioned under product specs).

Because of consumer expectation
I would add that an alpine jacket is likely to be worn with mid layers with high RET, so driving force is less., so venting may be useful.

[blacksheep]

If event were such a miracle, nobody would manufacture gore-tex clothing anymore.

Yes they would, but it still would be the less breathable option.