A question on stuffsacks and packing

[Moondog55]

This is something I haven't seen discussed here before.
My recent packing experiments with my new rucksack were not immediately successful. the stuff sacks I usually use do not fit the dimensions of the rucksac as well as I would like for my usual packing method.
How many people here use different stuffsacks for gear when using different packs??
As another part of the question where do most of you put your sleeping bag ; given that most internal frame packs carry better when the sleeping bag is stuffed into the bottom of the pack.
Horizontal or vertically???

[gayet]

one common solution is not to put the bag in its own stuff sack but just bung it in the bottom of the pack and use it to fill up gaps between other stuff. Of course this is only practical if you are using a pack with its own dry sac or packing everything into a dry sac the appropriate size for the pack.

I use a pack size dry sac in first then pack whatever into that. Down jackets have their own stuff sacks but that is about all - stuff sack wise.

[Franco]

My Aarn packs come with a WP liner so I don't need waterproof but water resistant bags to put my gear in.
If I use the ULA than I have some of those big white Paddy Pallin bags.
What works best for me is to have the sleeping bag and my mat at the bottom. The SB is inside a larger than the one provided bag so that when I put the rest of my gear on top it gets squashed by it and takes up all of the available area. If you use the conventional stiff stuff sacks you end up with what is normally called "the bowling ball " effect, that is having empty space in between the bags.

To illustrate, in the first shot I have my SB inside its stuff sack and two other sacks on top with a 4 L Nalgene above


Now I have the SB in a larger/lighter stuff sack, the clothing loose, three bricks on top , the Nalgene over them and about another 4-6L of extra free space.

This is very skewed to prove the point because we don't carry that many clothes (some do...) nor bricks but it illustrates the difference you can get by not creating more solid/non compressible objects than you need to.
BTW, I can (have) shove in my Neo Air standing up inside either set ups and still have the same free space at the top.
Franco

[Son of a Beach]

So the moral of the story is to carry a dozen bricks in the top of the pack so that you can fit more gear into a smaller pack.

That is a good illustration of your actual point, though.

[Moondog55]

I think in this instance a bigger stuff sac may be the way to go, will then squash down, if I can't find one it is a nice easy 20 minute process to cut stitch and seal one.

[JohnM]

Yeah, I've given up on stuff sacks mostly. I treat my pack as one big stuff sack. Mostly for space reasons, but also because one frigid morning near Feathertop it took me and my frozen hands about an hour to do all the various stuff sacks... a royal PITA. Just seems like extra time and effort for no real reward. Complexity belongs in the city, not out bush I reckon.

[Franco]

So the moral of the story is to carry a dozen bricks in the top of the pack so that you can fit more gear into a smaller pack.

nah, just have one of those 4 kg tents, that will do the job.
Franco

[Orion]

I like to put the sleeping bag in a stuff sack to protect it, not just from water but from dirt or the odd sharp item. I put it in horizontally on the bottom and then try and stuff smaller things around it to fill in the gaps. Food goes in a sack too. And I use a small stuff sack for miscellaneous items.

Maybe what you need is to sew a custom stuff sack that has the exact shape of the bottom of your pack?

[Moondog55]

Maybe not the exact shape, but certainly the exact width; then when I shove other stuff on top it will naturally compress down smaller, my current stuff sack fits perfectly across the winter day sack, but the bag for America is 60mm wider

[Orion]

That makes sense, although I like the idea of a fitted stuff sack. Why hasn't some manufacturer made money off of this idea?

I find that most of my sacks have a similar length to diameter ratio. The ones that are long or fat usually get left behind.
Is there a golden ratio for stuff sacks? I'll bet some mathmatician could come up with the optimal sized rounded cylinder
shape that would best fit in typical packs.


I ripped a thermarest one time inside my pack. I don't know how I did it, or rather, what did it. It was quite odd. But
my usual walking partner loved it as I so often derided the use of the thermarest stuff sack that my partner always uses.
Fortunately I had a patch kit on that (three week) trip.

[Moondog55]

Golden ratio stuffsack? Excellent idea, there must be one.

[andrewa]

A perfect opportunity for DIY gear! Don't expect anyone to make exactly what you need, as our needs vary hugely, and you won't find what you need anyway!

Stuf-sacks are easy to make. A great start to sewing. Then you'll be focused on the DIY thread!

If desired, it's easy to seal the seams at home. To do this , either use seam sealing "stuff" (Aquaseal/ McNett seam sealer/thinned out hardware silicon sealer, etc), suitable for whatever fabric you are using, or, for a more "professional" outcome, consider using sail makers double sided tape (for nylon, or silicon coated nylon), and then use strips of the stuff sack fabric (cut with ruler and stanley knife.... or scissors) on the other side of the double sided tape.

Before long, you'll be making all sorts of stuff!

[Moondog55]

Thanx Andrew, although I grabbed one already made that does the job.
I have literally dozens of stuff sacks, including a couple I made myself.

[north-north-west]

Gee, and I thought my current trend of not bothering with SB stuff sacks was from pure laziness, and instead I'm being weight-efficient!
Sometimes I really amaze myself.

[Ent]

Hi

Weight not being a big issue with me I found that as single pack liner a nightmare as they never really matched the pack shape so just annoyed me. My approach is to use a multitude of bags as it makes for keeping things in order. Got the idea when backpacking around Europe and it worked a treat as less stuff to get lost in a mad packing to catch an early morning connection after a long night out. Downside is you can wind up with a kilograms in sacks.

My personal favourite is a rectangular bag that has a Therma-rest type valve. I fold the clothes up in it and then sit on it to remove the air and then close the valve. Works a treat as it stands up vertically in the pack. Also it makes a great pillow I tried a lighter weight solution that used flyweight nylon type material and an Event base so you could squeeze the air out. Trouble is it would re-inflate quickly so bulky stuff like a down jacket would fill the pack space while packing.

The Sea-to-Summit compression bags made of Event waterproof material for sleeping bags are wonderful. If you need to compress a sleeping bag then for not a great weight penalty you get a waterproof solution as well.

As for pack design it is interesting with stuff. Hilleberg tents pack up short so can be packed horizontally while other brands pack up narrow but long so require vertical packing. Also say OP packs are wider so well suited to horizontal packing.

Generally in my packs sitting on top is a Kathmandu day pack (200 grams) containing wet weather gear, PLB, first aid kit (own drybag), AAA headlamp and toilet supplies (own dry bag). Under this goes the tent. The day pack contains what I need if a day side trip turns into a evening/night dash.

Oh and yes, I use traditional canvas packs and they do a remarkable job remaining dry so if I do chuck a top in I do not need to put it in a dry bag, providing that I can handle the possibility of it getting wet. Means in the layer on then off days I have less mucking around.

In all my trips I yet to have a wet item even when a water bottle exploded in my pack.

Cheers

[Nuts]

I agree with Franco, thats a good demo, if there is any hope of anywhere near a 'light' backpack each brick needs to count.
Otherwise its like a runaway train, bulky gear, bigger pack, more weight, heavier harness, more stuff & stuff sacks, more to go wrong, does head it, stay home, watch TV..
It's odd, having 'Stuff Sacs' but then to not 'Stuff' your backpack, needing to have things easily fit, so on rather than take a few minutes more..

I carry a few small ones for the bits and pieces but sleeping bag and all the soft stuff just go in the bivy bag and fill the pack space. I don't have That many spare clothes, dont need a sock draw
One large bag's easier to pack, helps spread the load and loads better for down garments. Manufacturers will keep on offering things like compression sacks or anything else that sounds good in some vague excuse as being necessary so long as there is a $ left in yer wallet

I learn't in kindy that the square peg doesn't fit the round hole??? Ive been whittling away ever since

[Moondog55]

yes, my sleeping bag in bivvy sack in a stuff sack 4 sizes too big fills the bottom of the ruck nicely and when I shove everything on top it compresses nicely and carries quite well.
The big duvet will get double protection and that is going to live right on top where i can get it in a hurry, and it won't be packed in a half size sac either so packing it will be quick and easy.
I have tried the "Stuff the sack " method but keep going back to smaller stuff sacks because I tend to loose stuff and once my SB got totally soaked and I had a very wet nite ( anybody ever used a Jensen?? )

[rogo]

I think this post somewhat answers my questions. BUT
Soon, I am walking for 3 weeks and every square cm of space is going to count. I seem to remember somewhere seeing you can use space bag type bags to compress your gear. So I got a couple and have spent the best part of 30 mins sending myself in hyperventilation sucking air out of the bag.

Ent do you still use the bags with any success?

Is it worth the extra 100gms do you think?

This one is the most important, do you think my down jacket will suffer being vacuum compressed each day?

If there is a topic already, please send me the link.

Ro

[Rob A]

Forget the stuff sacks.
Get hold of packing cells, colour coded and with a mesh front like you get from Kathmandu.
Smaller the better. They let you slide gear past each other and compress down smaller than you would imagine. Loads vibrate down too, youve only got to get it closed.
If you are worried about waterproofness use two (thin) liners, like medical waste bags, and rotate them occasionally when they hole.
Use a parcel fold rather than roll them closed. You dont want trapped air.
I used to fit more gear into a Pursuit 50 than people could fit in a 75, but bear in mind it had a Wraptor harness. The new harnesses systems dont like being overly stressed, the packs dont hold shape.
Coud be on a winner with your Alice pack frame as long as you sort the harness. I know a few blokes that still prefer a rigid frame which isolates the harness from the bending effects of the load, so all you have to worry about is your CG.

[wayno]

i use sea to summit ultra sil dry bags, very light. compression shouldnt hurt your down that much as long as you don't go completely mad squeezing every last bit of air out of the bag... the more space you save the smaller pack you need. everything then sits closer to your back, centre of gravity less distorted.... easier to walk

[Rob A]

why do you use sea to summit. The chinese are delivering to your door dry bags for about four bucks that do the job.
Unfortunately dry bags fart out air and let in water, and, most people cant use em properly.
Packing cells go into a fraction of the space.

[Mark F]

I have been using the no stuff sack method for my sleeping gear and clothing for the past 6 months and really like it. I use a ZPacks cuben dry bag as a pack liner which fits my packs really well. Stuff in the quilt, Neoair (no stuff sac but rolled) silk liner, camp clothing then add the other gear. Food in 2 stuff sacs - 1 for dinner/breakfast down low and one for lunch/back up snacks up high. Tent if dry (if wet above the closed dry bag), cook kit in stuff sac - no sharp corners. Things like 1st aid, tent pegs, tp, head light, go in the top pocket and snacks for the day, knife etc go in the hip belt pockets. Water + Steripen, rain gear etc in outside pockets.

I used to use S2S dry bags (8 litre size) - 1 for sleeping and and 1 for clothing and same set up as above for the rest of my gear. I found I couldn't maximise use of the pack's volume but my current system has delivered all my requirements.

[Onestepmore]

I'm a bit of a fanatacist about organising my pack, and can't stand any lumpy bits, and it's got to be evenly balanced. I pack a traditonal pack completely differently than if I'm using an Aarn pack (where heavier items go in the front balance pockets), but whatever type, I do like to have everything in separate stuff sacks of varying sizes. I know it's extra weight, and I'm moving towards more cuben bags. I have a couple on the way to try that have microfibre on one side so it can double as a pillow (still on the elusive hunt for the 'perfect' hiking pillow!) I dislike clunky bags with big toggles, and swap them for better bags. I especially like the sil nylon granite gear air pairs that have 2 different smaller compartments for little things, change of socks and undies, gloves, thermals etc. I don't take 'spare' clothes as such, just another clean underlayer to wear to bed and an insulating layer. I hate losing track of anything, and have a set place for everything. I find ziplock bags really useful as you can see what's in them, and stop spillage of things like small containers of sunscreen, moisturiser, hand sanitiser, nuts etc. I have food in bags labelled for each meal, taken out of the commercial wrapping where possible, unless it's just a daywalk. Water bags or hydration bladder always goes on the outside of a sil nylon waterproof liner, in case of leakage (Aarn has built in ones, as Franco points out). Ditto for wet tent.

My kids have been doing scouts for some years now, and especially when they were small we'd have clothes for each day labelled in the big zip lock bags, and each meal in a separate smaller zip lock bag which was then in a grey shopping bag tied with the day written on it. These grey bags then became the bag for rubbish and wet or dirty gear. I use the same bags when hiking too, to keep wet or muddy stuff away from clean stuff, and you can sit on one if the ground is damp.

I also use the Kathmandu packing cells mentioned above when I travel with 'normal' luggage - so easy to keep stuff sorted and faster to repack. Dirty stuff goes in a mesh laundry bag first so it's kept separate and doesn't stink up the clean stuff, and can just be tipped into the laundry basket when we get home, or wash as we go.

I think I'd go nuts if I just mashed everything up together, unsorted, but I defintely appreciate the space economy of that method. I may be able to try a larger sleeping bag cover so it can mould more down the bottom.
Just a question - how messy is your camp/tent if things aren't in bags? How do you know where things are?

[corvus]

Wow osm,
Kind of an obsessiveness in that post eh!! , so be it who am I to judge ?
When I was a Scouter our Scouts were able to keep it together gear wise and little gear loss
corvus

[wayno]

why do you use sea to summit. The chinese are delivering to your door dry bags for about four bucks that do the job.
Unfortunately dry bags fart out air and let in water, and, most people cant use em properly.
Packing cells go into a fraction of the space.

if you want to tell everyone what those bags are and how to find them then we'd all be enlightened a bit more.
i bought my bags years ago , it was the first i'd come across them, i had an immediate use for them and bought them as people are inclined to do when they are in a shop
i dont need them to survive being immersed in water, once they are packed into my pack theres minimal expansion from tehm i find, it makes getting the gear packed down and in the pack easier and they are tough and last, i'm happy with the job they do.

[Mark F]

osm - my camp is quite organised. The only gear that gets stuffed in without other packing is my sleeping gear and maybe spare socks etc. It comes out once the tent is up and immediately gets set up. The other things have been taken out of the pack beforehand and set up (tent, cooking gear). Just about all my intra-day requirements are in the top, side back or hip belt pockets. I didn't like the lack of top pockets on my UL pack which is part of the reason for carrying an Amp 40 now; but I am looking around for a lighter version with appropriate pockets.

Like you everything has it's place - otherwise I tend to lose things. As I pack in the morning I assemble each group of items and once all accounted for into the stuff sac, once all the stuff sacs are filled and closed, into the pack they go. There are only ever 4 or 5 other items that go in the main bag and they are all in stuff sacks 2 for food, tent, cooking gear, electronics etc (optional). The only variation is in wet weather when the tent and possibly the lunch bag may be loaded above the sealed dry bag.

[Onestepmore]

Hehe, now I feel better. The thought of everything all jumbled up together was making me feel anxious

Haha and I like osm - its shorthand text for Awesome!