Brands that aren't/are what they once were-Insert Brand

[matagi]

Well, you don't like Cascade design gear so no need to boycott (< i think we need that crazy head emoticon)
I don't think we are allowed to moderate any 'opinion' ? I support your right to boycott gear.. even if you have gone and bought other gear anyway

(Oh this is whacky stuff )

No, he likes some Cascade design gear - he just doesn't like their restrictive shipping practices, hence he sources other gear.

[Miyata610]

Lol. True. I guess. I do have some thermarest gear and ive used lots of other stuff. The thermarest gear i bought from the usa when it was ok to ship direct.

When i now buy new gear i do conciously try to avoid them if i can find a better product. So far i have.

It means more work researching rather than just buying it because cascade design stuff is "the best".

[Mark F]

Just buy your Cascade Designs products from the UK. EU regulations appear to prevent the monopolistic practices that are so prevalent in the US (Freedom loving US vs the socialist scum). You will also find the postage is much lower and quicker - the postage on my last order with down pants, jacket and some other stuff was AU$20. The 20% VAT comes off the price (16% reduction). Checking the price on a small Neoair at http://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk is 88.61 pounds or AU$133 including postage. The same WITHOUT postage from REI is US$129.95 or AU$125.

[wildernesswanderer]

Yeah like whatever, don't like a company great don't buy their products, move on. I'll buy whatever I think is the best for what I want. My X-Therm came from the UK, Love it, I prefer the baffle design, it's light for it's rating and it works well. Boycott pfft,

[Nuts]

Mod: Ok, had a request to split some of these topics. While it's not ideal, the original topic seemed more to merge with similar issues that can be attributed to other brands. Rather than split them further, iv'e merged the three topics. It doesn't (as a topic) target any particular brand though i'm sure it's just as easy to find in a search.

[Miyata610]

Was that necessary?

[Jack o]

Well what we can all agree on is that the common practice of putting outrageous retail prices before slicing them almost all year round with sales has to stop (and it's not only MacPac)... Because if you urgently need a gear product that isn't on sale at an Aussie or NZ brand, you won't buy it full price, you'll simply buy American or European...

In regard to MACPAC marketing policy, I don’t know of anyone who pays the inflated RRP, and even on the odd occasion when I have enquired about some of their big ticket items which were not ‘on-sale’, the sales assistant has often offered a discount anyway.
The reason I have been buying MACPAC/ Fairydown for decades is not for the sales hype, but rather that I have generally found their gear to be reasonably priced, hard wearing and very fit for purpose. My wife in contrast is a bit of an outdoor gear junky and likes to trial a variety of different brands, including Arcteryx, Patagonia, Icebreaker, Montane, etc, etc. However I noticed during our recent skiing trip to Austria, that like myself, she wore mostly MACPAC merino garments while skiing, a fact which did not escape the attention of our skiing mates from Colorado, who by the end of the trip nicked named us ‘TEAM MACPAC’.

[Nuts]

:-o

Was that necessary?

ps, Iv'e copied the important post from the discussion re: hilleberg and campsaver.

[wayno]

if you go back in time, in the early days of fairydown and macpac, there was hardly any choice in the shops and those brands were a major boost to what was there. the gear was made to survive prolonged use in the nz and overseas mountains .

today theres a vast choice of brands, and gear of a range of qualities we can get our hands on. macpac is just another brand in the crowd.

[Hallu]

Well what we can all agree on is that the common practice of putting outrageous retail prices before slicing them almost all year round with sales has to stop (and it's not only MacPac)... Because if you urgently need a gear product that isn't on sale at an Aussie or NZ brand, you won't buy it full price, you'll simply buy American or European...

In regard to MACPAC marketing policy, I don’t know of anyone who pays the inflated RRP, and even on the odd occasion when I have enquired about some of their big ticket items which were not ‘on-sale’, the sales assistant has often offered a discount anyway.
The reason I have been buying MACPAC/ Fairydown for decades is not for the sales hype, but rather that I have generally found their gear to be reasonably priced, hard wearing and very fit for purpose. My wife in contrast is a bit of an outdoor gear junky and likes to trial a variety of different brands, including Arcteryx, Patagonia, Icebreaker, Montane, etc, etc. However I noticed during our recent skiing trip to Austria, that like myself, she wore mostly MACPAC merino garments while skiing, a fact which did not escape the attention of our skiing mates from Colorado, who by the end of the trip nicked named us ‘TEAM MACPAC’.

I find Icebreaker Merino products far superior in quality than MacPac's. From both I bought base layers and outer layers, and on one MacPac product the buttons fell off, the Merino softshell is very fragile and not waterproof at all (not even in a drizzle), the base layer is really thin and smells really bad after sweating, while the Icebreaker ones don't. Icebreaker are also far better looking, and you get a lot more choice (granted, they only do that anyway while MacPac is all over the place).

[Nuts]

Perhaps a better way to do this is to insert the brand (you want to discuss) in your topic title when posting a reply. To me they seem all related issues and this seems a better way to include similar issues in one topic without singling out anyone in particular (as wev'e seen, even the holy grail (Hilleberg) may not be immune in the future) Hope this helps..

[Jack o]

I find Icebreaker Merino products far superior in quality than MacPac's. From both I bought base layers and outer layers, and on one MacPac product the buttons fell off, the Merino softshell is very fragile and not waterproof at all (not even in a drizzle), the base layer is really thin and smells really bad after sweating, while the Icebreaker ones don't. Icebreaker are also far better looking, and you get a lot more choice (granted, they only do that anyway while MacPac is all over the place).

We did some very heavy glacial skiing in Austria for nearly 2 weeks straight without a break and I can confidently report that we did not experience any of the problems with Macpac merinos you alluded to in your post.

If you are happy with Icebreaker then I suggest you stick with it, just as we will stick with Macpac.

[Ent]

:-o

Was that necessary?

Fully agree I am rather confused by the disruption of the thread by combining multiple ones and making it appear as a single thread thus deceptive.

It is amazing the lack of credit more than a few give to consumer action. Some might remember when an aircraft crashed in the Pacific and the USA airline company and manufacturer was not much interested. Well what can you expect it was only NZ passengers a small country and market. A dedicate parent hammered and hammered and got the airline from being number one to number four on the USA NZ leg and this resulted in the airline pushing the might of Boeing into doing something. Due to the parents’ dedication, a serious design and maintenance flaw was discovered that otherwise would have remained hidden.

Japanese are well known for chasing up on quality issues with brands that do not comply shown up for what they are. So direct action can and does have an effect. We will get what we accept otherwise.

Sure some might be defeatist by nature and convey their own lack of self worth and try to get/force others to not take action. If there is one thing I have learnt from history is if you never try you will never succeed and on many occasions a few have changed oppressive behaviours. Of course those in power will do their best to censor and frustrate such action. Lets hope it not going to happen on this forum.

I have received a response from both Hilleberg and Campsaver to emails that I sent before Phil posted. Hilleberg confirmed Phil's comments and applogised again, been a busy time for Hilleberg correcting this mistake. Campsaver have stated that because the products are now sold out the special deal is now off. Here is their email to me.

Unfortunately we don't do rain checks on out of stock items, so we can't pr=
omise you that 20% off. Although we do run frequent sales, so when we get m=
ore in, there is a chance we'll have another sale on it soon.

Regards

[wayno]

its entirely campsavers fault you couldnt order it before it ran out on sale they should be honouring their sale price when the stock comes in......

[Strider]

its entirely campsavers fault you couldnt order it before it ran out on sale they should be honouring their sale price when the stock comes in......

Or is it the fault of those who bought the sale stock before it ran out?

[wayno]

he would have bought it if campsaver hadnt have blocked sending what he wanted to aus

[Onestepmore]

I thought the 20% off deal specifically excluded Hilleberg, as they have a worldwide 'no discount' policy?
Or was that a sweetner due to your complaint....?

[Miyata610]

I thought the 20% off deal specifically excluded Hilleberg, as they have a worldwide 'no discount' policy?
Or was that a sweetner due to your complaint....?

That's interesting. I didn't notice that. Nobody mentioned it to me when I queried the no ship policy.

Edit: actually, I've been reading lots of hilleberg reviews recently and a few have mentioned a 25% off deal that was happening in Europe last year. Of course the European pricing is higher than the US pricing anyway.

[sthughes]

The 20% off is storewide on everything except stuff already on sale. I'm pretty sure Hilleberg is covered as I actually bought the tent, only the address bothered them after the fact.

I got a reply from Hilleberg, but it just told me Petra went away yesterday and may not be able to reply until the 13th. Probably irrelevant as she has already answered others (above) so I have my answer anyway.

Seems this is a Campsaver error/deception and not a Hilleberg policy.

I also got a reply from the Australian retailer of Hilleberg, Mountain Adventure Equipment. They have them in stock and ship free to Australia. Price $659, so considering GST is added that's the same price as the US, nice to see. Unfortunatley still a lot more (nearly $180 more) than the deal currently happening at Campsaver.

[Ent]

Hilleberg themselves discount on their own website, um does the word clearance of demo stock give enough wiggle room?

On Moontrail the discount is hidden in a points system.

As one old marketing manager once said, "discounts beget discount until the customer thinks that you are a totally crooked with your pricing".

Cheers

[Nuts]

[] Minor moderation edits: Comments about moderation are for private messages

[cleanbackpack]

Hi Mr Black Sheep.

I am happy to say I have had a Genesis pack that will be 14 years old this year. It’s getting tired now but it’s been round the world multiple times, I lived out of it as my ‘home’ two years as a nomad of sorts and it’s been bashed about SW Tas multiple times too. I can honestly say that it’s one of the best material items I have ever owned. Period.

Regards,
Stonie.

I too have had a Genesis for 14 years. I got it in Christchurch when they were made in Christchurch. I would have agreed with you until this morning. I can't anymore. My backpack did look like it was still new. A light scuff here and there but nothing bad at all. The inside still looked new. When I first got it, it went around the world with me twice. It was great. Then I decided to lighten the load and for the last 10 years I've been using a backpack half it's size. Recently, I used it again. The daypack got soiled so I put it in the washing machine this morning. Going in, it was dirty but in great shape. The inside waterproof coating was completely intact. The material they use doesn't look particularly like it has a waterproof coating. Well, now it's clear that it did. When it came out of the washing machine it was like the waterpoof coating desolved in the wash. Now the nylon is a jet black instead of more like a grayish black it was before. I can see the tatered remains of the waterproof coating at the seams. There are little balls of plastic everywhere. I'm so sad. I didn't think twice about putting it in the wash since the 2 backpacks I've used in the last 10 years have been through the wash about 4-5 times a year. Never affected the waterproof coating. In one of the packs the waterproof coating is as good as new after being washed 50 times. The other has stress cracks from use. Luckily the main pack is too big for me to even consider putting in the wash. Lesson learned.

DO NOT WASH A MACPAC!!!!!!!

[tasadam]

Hi Mr Black Sheep.

I am happy to say I have had a Genesis pack that will be 14 years old this year. It’s getting tired now but it’s been round the world multiple times, I lived out of it as my ‘home’ two years as a nomad of sorts and it’s been bashed about SW Tas multiple times too. I can honestly say that it’s one of the best material items I have ever owned. Period.

Regards,
Stonie.

I too have had a Genesis for 14 years. I got it in Christchurch when they were made in Christchurch. I would have agreed with you until this morning. I can't anymore. My backpack did look like it was still new. A light scuff here and there but nothing bad at all. The inside still looked new. When I first got it, it went around the world with me twice. It was great. Then I decided to lighten the load and for the last 10 years I've been using a backpack half it's size. Recently, I used it again. The daypack got soiled so I put it in the washing machine this morning. Going in, it was dirty but in great shape. The inside waterproof coating was completely intact. The material they use doesn't look particularly like it has a waterproof coating. Well, now it's clear that it did. When it came out of the washing machine it was like the waterpoof coating desolved in the wash. Now the nylon is a jet black instead of more like a grayish black it was before. I can see the tatered remains of the waterproof coating at the seams. There are little balls of plastic everywhere. I'm so sad. I didn't think twice about putting it in the wash since the 2 backpacks I've used in the last 10 years have been through the wash about 4-5 times a year. Never affected the waterproof coating. In one of the packs the waterproof coating is as good as new after being washed 50 times. The other has stress cracks from use. Luckily the main pack is too big for me to even consider putting in the wash. Lesson learned.

DO NOT WASH A MACPAC!!!!!!!

Of curiosity, what detergent did you use? And what temperature does your wash run at?

[slparker]

Also out of curiosity... what made you think that you could put a 14 year old backpack in the wash without it suffering somewhat?
I don't think that destruction of an (allegedly) waterproof inner coating is a failure in a 14 year old backpack. I think that 'our waterproof coatings last 14 years' is a proud statement for any manufacturer to make.

Does your pack still hold stuff inside and is it still comfortable?

[wayno]

a pack that old, it wouldnt suprise me the action of washing it destroyed the waterproof layer....
they have a limit how long they will last, the membranes break down over the years.
i just washed my gaiters and the same thing happened, they werent that old but i left them sitting around damp for a while and mould accelerated the demise of the membrane

[MetalOne]

If you want to know why Macpac has gone to the dogs (which is true, profit driven now, not for the love of it):

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industr ... cpac-stake

Says it all, middle management of katmandu scored Arthur Ellis (killing top brands like Great Outdoors Camping, and Fairydown Adventure) and Macpac with Jan Camerons $$$, then just follow the path of Katmandu. Who just copied the style of the great brand Patagonia in the first place, then made it mass market volume rubbish.

[Strider]

If you want to know why Macpac has gone to the dogs (which is true, profit driven now, not for the love of it):

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industr ... cpac-stake

Says it all, middle management of katmandu scored Arthur Ellis (killing top brands like Great Outdoors Camping, and Fairydown Adventure) and Macpac with Jan Camerons $$$, then just follow the path of Katmandu. Who just copied the style of the great brand Patagonia in the first place, then made it mass market volume rubbish.

Macpac was on the wrong track well before Jan got her hands dirty with it.

[wayno]

kathmandu must have put the willies up a lot of local companies and had them wondering how much they'd have to change to survive... they continue to rake in the money, killing off the independant retailers, another long standing shop just closed in auckland, I can't think of any independant ones left in wellington, and only one left in auckland that i know of, its only really the smaller provincial towns where they are still alive...
either that or theres the temptation to try and emulate kathmandu and their turnover.
a few decades ago, macpac only had one serious rival, arthur ellis but since then the competition has multiplied and become a lot stiffer... so to their credit macpac still survived when many other companies havent... they've gone from just making outdoor gear to selling it exclusively in their own chain of stores on the high street.
i know someone who successfully ran an independant outdoor shop in wellington for several decades, but in the end lost out to the chain stores and their fierce pricing...
snowgum had a presence in nz for a a long time, i believe they started as the scout shop? they have
since closed all shops in NZ.
I wont debate the quality of macpacs gear...

[icefest]

On Moontrail the discount is hidden in a points system.

How does this points system work?

[Strider]

On Moontrail the discount is hidden in a points system.

How does this points system work?

you receive points for items purchased, and you can spend the points on other items or to cover shipping etc.