Macpac Cascade alternative?

[wayno]

agreed just that a lot of nylon packs are thinner nylon so just need to pick the design that fits your terrain

[Maelgwn]

Hi all, my old cascade size 2 is too small both in volume and back length for the kind of walking I'm doing now so it's time to update. The current special is $330 for the Cascade 90L. Would there be anything of equal quality for a better price?
Cheers John

For Australian use, the only real competitor is the One Planet - generally thought to be a better design and quality but also at least $150 more.

OK - A few reasons I say this. It of course my opinion - and depends on your intended use.

But for the original posters intended heavy weights and high volume (i.e. carrying some gear for his kids, potential for 20kg+), most people will be more comfortable in a strong metal framed harness. The best examples of these and the Macpac and One Planet - although some other companies are similar.

Fabric - UV is stronger in Australia and Australian/NZ made fabrics are made to withstand this. I have never seen a synthetic fabric last more than 5 years with regular use out in the sun and not look like it was on its last legs.

[vagrom]

canvas weighs a tonne when its wet, if you use a waterproof pack liner you don't need canvas to reduce water getting through the pack. save more weight with nylon

A fair point for anyone who doesn't encounter scrub like what Tassie has to offer on (and off) so many tracks.
Walking in to Wineglass Bay and Cooks Beach for example, quite a bit of a different demand on your pack to doing, say, the South Coast track.

Not necessarily my Mont Flyte is 1000 denier nylon and I've dragged it through the Arthurs and offtrack through the Denisons/Stepped Hills and it's in pristine condition.
Personally I think a thicker nylon is very good against abrasion.

SBS, their webpage shows Flyte is a fine looking, clearly tough and much cheaper alternative, with it's 1000 denier. But the trade-off for that toughness is a 50gm saving on their canvas alternative and they're good enough to make the comparison plain, that is "2.5 v's 2.45kg" (Good on Mont for doing that. Web info details pages are often evasive...Macpac!). So for a tiny weight gain you've lost the, admittedly limited, water-proofing.

Wayno: the weight gain of wet modern pack canvas is not really an issue. Macpac lowers weight (and water-proofness..) by making Aztec, or whatever the name of the moment is. Less water absorption; a canvas-synthetic mix. Lighter than plain canvas. [ What name does OP use? Do they use a heavier blend, or plain canvas?]
SBS has the clear price advantage and a tough pack as long as he's prepared to use a pack cover. (It's always adviseable to use an inner liner). But thick bush and pack-covers can be frustrating. Be prepared to replace them from time to time, if not commonly.

[stepbystep]

SBS, their webpage shows Flyte is a fine looking, clearly tough and much cheaper alternative, with it's 1000 denier. But the trade-off for that toughness is a 50gm saving on their canvas alternative and they're good enough to make the comparison plain, that is "2.5 v's 2.45kg" (Good on Mont for doing that. Web info details pages are often evasive...Macpac!). So for a tiny weight gain you've lost the, admittedly limited, water-proofing.

Yep, and if I recall correct that's why I got the nylon over canvas $$$. It's a very simple design and the harness is excellent. I think they are overlooked as a brand in general. Their overpants and rain jackets are excellent and I own a cpl other bits 'n bobs too. I still want a McMillan though

[Ent]

OP uses two grades of canvas. Both I believe are reinforced with synthetic woven in. Good news OP have looked at their light Shadow with the promise of armouring it in risk prone areas. Still a McMillan is a better bet for absolute robustness but OP have been working hard on improving the Shadow and it just keeps getting better.

Must admit I have a sneaking feeling that in the lighter grades of material a synthetic is probably harder wearing. But an armoured canvas pack ignoring the weight is a great off track bit of gear.

Cheers

[vagrom]

Of course it's not just the toughness of the material itself but the actual reinforcement of joins. It needs to be able to withstand repeated acts of tearing yourself out of wedged in locations, without ripping away harness parts; a pretty big ask. You just get too tired sometimes to really care about easing yourself back a bit and then forward again. And then there's the times you actually wind up being suspended by scrub,on a steep descent. Generally, the lighters synthetic packs economise in this area to save on weight and bulk. But then again, cheaper packs, cheaper to replace; the lightness most welcome.
Not having owned one, I presume they leak like a sieve and require a cover in all cases but may be able to be profitably sprayed with product, on upper surfaces?

[Strider]

Not having owned one, I presume they leak like a sieve and require a cover in all cases but may be able to be profitably sprayed with product, on upper surfaces?

Use a packliner. Most packs arent designed to be waterproof, and covers only get ripped or blown off.

[wayno]

covers are just cosmetic, to keep the dirt off, in a decent storm they won't stop the rain getting in and they just turn into so much nylon billowing in the wind..., just makes it harder to access the pack to get at your gear...

[Gusto]

So the item brief is for a Large Pack 90+L that is also tough. The Casade is alos dual entry. Is that a requirement?

The hardest part maybe finding shops that actually stock the type pack your interested in.

Another other good band would be WE. There harness is the same on all their big packs http://www.wildequipment.com.au/backpacks.php?Category=Backpacks&Subcat=Classic%20Canvas%20Backpacks

I think you should look at the Lost World if your wanting a Big and tough pack. If dual entry is required then you should look at Freycinet. (I use a WE Lost World)

If your willing to try something that isn't Canvas then you should look into the Mountain Expedition http://www.wildequipment.com.au/backpack_detail.php?Code=WEMOUNT This pack is probably closer to the price range you first suggested


Alternatively if your willing to look above your price range then you should consider:
http://www.summitgear.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22_62_69&products_id=492
Or somthing from Catus Gear http://www.cactusequipment.co.nz/


Between, MONT, OP, WE, Cactus, Macpac and Summit Gear you are bound to find a large heavy duty pack you like.

[radson]

and gregory, mchale.

I had an aarn load limo for a while. Certainly was very comfortable carrying a lot of weight. I certainly agree that Australian conditions are not that unique. We may be hotter but UV increases with altitude in other countries. Other packs are designed to be hauled up ropes as well, which is less common in Australia. When I started out, I used to have packs with big chunky harnesses but nowadays they just dont seem as necessary.

[ILUVSWTAS]

covers are just cosmetic, to keep the dirt off, in a decent storm they won't stop the rain getting in and they just turn into so much nylon billowing in the wind..., just makes it harder to access the pack to get at your gear...

Keh??? I use one all the time. My pack stays dry.

[wayno]

yours must be made of something different than the ones i've seen people use

[ILUVSWTAS]

yours must be made of something different than the ones i've seen people use

So you've never actually used one? Were you just going on what you've seen from other walkers?

Mine is the thicker material though yes.

[wayno]

yeah i've seen people using them in storms, the ones i've seen dont seem to keep off heavy rain, pretty thin material. i wouldnt think some of them are waterproof

[nq111]

Packs are so much cheaper in real terms now days I don't think people value 'bombproof' like they used to (and won't pay the same weight penalties for it).

Certainly, you don't want a pack that will fail without notice on the track but if it wears through after a few good years no big drama. Much better to have the comfort and weight saving - plus there is always some great new designs to try at replacement point

[wayno]

or you get different packs for differing conditions... get the best of both worlds. heavy and light...

[Ent]

It was interesting when I looked at the 90 litre Mapac Cascade it had the bars sticking up hitting the lid. It turned out that they had slipped the straps holding them in place. Thought the design was rather average considering the trouble the Torre goes to with the same harness to keep the support bars locked in at the top.

Simple fact is tougher packs weigh three kilograms or more but most have harnesses that can handle the load providing that the body can.

I would not be wrapped up in the canvas verses synthetic debate as sensible approach is to double protect your gear from water. I find my canvas packs do a great job of keeping stuff dry but prefer individual waterproof bags for stuff so I can find things quickly rather than digging around in a huge pack. But a decent pack liner is the go for synthetic packs and works well. Do like the fitted liner Aarn use in their packs.

As for pack covers, well found scrub like to eat them but great on the mud runs with bikes as much easier to wash the cover than the pack.

Horses for courses and yes I have a collection depending on where I am going and what I think I will encounter. Still to find the perfect pack but until then very happy with my collection though would like to cull a few to save space.

Cheers

[norts]

I like a pack cover, I uses S2S. Very handy when unpacking gear on wet ground, doubles as a small tarp. Also when it's raining and you are unpacking , just leave it over the top of the pack to stop rain getting into pack. It has more than one use so I dont see it as a waste of space. Also in some scrub it actually helps, slides over things rather than straps catching.
I always have a small carabiner on the tensioner so its attached to my pack. If anyone finds a bright orange MD pack cover on the SW Cape Range, its mine!

Roger