Talk to me about rain gear, especially jackets

[ssloane]

I have a good goretex jacket. I've walked in it for about 7 years and it's still in good shape. But I've never found it particularly warm, and sometimes I get quite sweaty inside it. Then someone recently said that goretex isn't the best fabric for Australian conditions. Really?? Who knew?? I didn't get a chance to ask him what was better, so I'm asking you experts.

I'm planning to do the South Coast Track (Tasmania) next Feb. I gather that one pair of overpants is pretty similar to any other (is that correct?) but it seems that perhaps this is a trip where I might consider investing in some alternative form of jacket or jacket combination.

So what would be the ultimate/ideal set of gear for hiking in Tasmania for both evening warmth and wet weather? I can get some of this for Christmas and Birthday, so if something is expensive but good I'd still like to know about it.

Thanks.

[wayno]

breathability of jackets can be as much to do with venting as the fabric. do you have pit zips or vented pockets on your current jacket?
also there are different types of gore tex, some breathe better than others and how much do you use or wash your jacket,
friend of mine has a proshell arcteryx sv jacket, he came off an ice craft course and sais he was the only person who was dry inside their rain jacket for the course... his jacket does have pit zips but it repels water wel as well and proshell is gore tex's top of the line fabric.
does it repel the rain on the outside effectively? if not then it will never breathe, the DWR is no good and you may need to reproof it with DWR treatment,, even then it may not work as well DWR treatment is an art in itself and sometimes it just isnt effective regardless of what you do.
have you searched the forum for this topic, it has been discussed extensively before.
what other type of bushwalking are you going to be doing? do you go scrub bashing much>? that will be a big determinant in what jacket you should get, jackets vary greatly in their weight

[ninjapuppet]

Thats a very general statement. "Australian conditions" could mean the snowy mountains and tropical hinterlands in QLD.
I was issued with a goretex jacket in the army over a decade ago and that worked pretty well Australia wide.

I dont agree with everything these guys write about, but they did test out 21 of the latest and greatest top of the line hardshells. This article is new this week so its pretty current.
Ive tried 4 of the 5 top jackets in this review (havnt tried the haglofs), and do believe they're better than anything else Ive tried
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Hardshell-Jacket-Reviews

[wayno]

and remember that review is written in a country where people don't go scrub bashing, if you go scrub bashing you need a reasonably heavyweight jacket. at least half a kilo or more in weight something like a rab latok or westcomb revenant jackets around 700 grams, or a heavyweight mountain hardwear jacket or mountain equipment jacket

[ssloane]

I don't scrub-bash, or not intentionally LOL! Rarely.

I have read through quite few posts about jackets and goretex was mentioned a lot which is why I was surprised when the guy said that it wasn't the best for Australian conditions. My current jacket does have various vents and zips. I don't know what particular variety of goretex it is - it says Goretex Softshell. Does that help?

Thanks for the link to the review - I'll read that with interest.

[wayno]

softshell then it should be their non waterproof "active"
what brand and model is it>?

[wayno]

sorry , could be the gore tex "windstopper"
the active shells are waterproof

[Giddy_up]

This is a tough one. I have a MD Nimbus and it is Gortex Pro. I walk in QLD and this jacket keeps me dry, no doubt about that. Having said that It can get quite sweaty inside when your really exerting even with the jacket fully vented. What I do find is that once you stop the jacket transfers that moisture away quite effectively, drying you down so to speak. So.........

What you have on under the jacket is just as important as the jacket itself I believe, so in summer, quick wicking T-shirts and in the cooler months you will find me in light merino and layering as needed for warmth. Cotton or slow drying fabrics are the enemy of these jackets and can cause the jacket to get the blame for poor performance.

The down side of this jacket is its weight. By my scales it is 712 grams. That's very heavy when there are shells out there that weigh 350 grams and rate quite well like RAB and Montaine. That's a big difference and if you couple that with shell pants as well the weight difference could be well over 0.5kg for items that you don't wear all the time and sit in your pack. Also don't confuse weight with performance, as some of these new fabrics really do "punch above their weight" in performance.


Tassie is different for sure as to what you require, especially in winter but unless you do all your walking there I would be looking at a compromise on something lighter in weight so it won't get left out of your pack when your doing your local walks and pack extra weight via mid and base layers to stay warm if your walking in colder climates.

I'm currently scouring the Internet looking for a lighter replacement for my Gortex gear thanks to all the UL weight posts on here lately, but it does make you realise how varied all the products we have to choose from are and how good some are. It's just *&%$#! expensive that's all.


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[wayno]

event . neoshell and dry q are generally more breathable than gore tex...
but also depends on how good the dwr is and how well the fabric repels water. and again on pit zips and fabric weight, heavier material doesnt breathe as well and heats you up more.
i'e got a montane event, no probs. and westcomb event and neoshell no probs and a pertex, no probs...
if you're cold in the shell. look to layer up rather than look for a heavier shell. heavy shells are worse for sweat buid up in warm weather and are more dead weight to carry

[Giddy_up]

wayno if you want to stay under 400g, what would you go for. Montane with no pit zips or Arcteryx.


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[wayno]

IS that arcteryx with pit zips or without?
depends,,, my stormshell has pit zips i have lightweight jackets without pit zips but only because i can go to my storm shell if 'm going to need pit zips
pit zips give your more flexibility for the conditions you can wear the jacket in. especially if you've got it on most of the day.
if you're talking without pit zips, montane should be better, but look after event and wash it every trip.
on long trips, event breathability should go downhill faster than gore tex if your skin gets into contact with much of the fabric and you're wearing a thin base layer....
the latest arcterys are using the latest event in a couple of their shells and that is essentially a multi layer event shell...

[Giddy_up]

Thanks for that, I am tending towards the Montane Trojan Jacket. It is 3 layer event and 340g so it should do the job I think.


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[Gusto]

Macpac have an option that is a little heavier than what you are looking at. It's possibly a little longer or more durable than the montane trojan

http://www.macpac.com.au/mens/jackets/summit-anorak-m.html

It's quite new. It's currently on sale. I'm hoping that it will be on a more significant sale later in the year or early next year.

[wayno]

leave macpac out of it, their rainshells are a contentious issue , various people on here have had disasters with their shells including me. bad dwr, bad workmanship, delamination.... mixed after sales service...
mention them and the criticism often flows from there...

[ssloane]

Great information. Really glad I came here to ask. Thank you all.

[slparker]

ssloane, I have the anti-problem to you... I'm going on the south coast track in Jan - I have 3 goretex jackets (hey-two were gifts) one ancient knee length Mont (just under a KILO) one old kathmandu (just over a kilo) and one mountain hardwear paclite jacket (500g). The obvious choice for me is the paclite... but then I'll need a pair of waterproof trousers for the walk (or get a wet *&%$#!) which is another 500 g....

[vagrom]

If you have good weather on the South Coast Track then you'll unnecessarily carry your overpants the whole way. The knee length jacket is the bushwalker's happy medium and Goretex has stood the test of time, notwithstanding newer claims. One of Goretex's strengths is it's resistance to Tassie's notorious scrub bashing, which won't be an issue on this Track. But anything lighter in jackets likely means the knee length option disappears ( ? ).

It's not actually knee length but is certainly designed to protect the thighs, letting your gaiters do most of the rest.

The knee length range is quite limited as jackets are generally (highly) priced for the high street client, looking for something smart and stylish. In this regard it remains alas, a cut below the rest.

From memory, Mont is generally the cheapest in this limited range. Goretex? "Hydronaute"? A cheaper Goretex? Can't remember. An old popular has been the Pallin Vista, weighing in at ~800gms but a bomb-proof piece liked by many. There's a tendency to go overboard with supplementary zips and pieces in order to gain an edge, as with packs.

[wayno]

because its gore tex doesnt mean it will stand up to scrub, gore tex is just the membrane thats stuck to a face fabric
its the face fabric that matters, some gore tex is stuck to extremely thin face fabrics, can vary greatly in the weight fo the fabric from the ultra light to the heavyweight giving garment weights from around 300 grams up to around a kilo

[vagrom]

But in that case, if the Goretex itself lacked any staying power in it's own right, wouldn't it be stripped away and expose this face fabric?

[GPSGuided]

Chemistry.

[Strider]

But in that case, if the Goretex itself lacked any staying power in it's own right, wouldn't it be stripped away and expose this face fabric?

The face fabric is on the outside of the Goretex membrane.

[wayno]

two layer gore tex is covered by polyeurethane membrane on the inside of the clothes and nylon fabric on the outside
on three layer gore tex theres a woven nylon face covering the polyeurethane.

[vagrom]

THIS (the above!) is why I was lousy at Chemistry...

Sooooo. It's not what you've got, it's how you use it. How you apply the Goretex, in the construction of a fabric that's then marketed to the jacket makers. Ingenious my dear Watson.

[slparker]

If you have good weather on the South Coast Track then you'll unnecessarily carry your overpants the whole way. The knee length jacket is the bushwalker's happy medium and Goretex has stood the test of time, notwithstanding newer claims. One of Goretex's strengths is it's resistance to Tassie's notorious scrub bashing, which won't be an issue on this Track. But anything lighter in jackets likely means the knee length option disappears ( ? ).

It's not actually knee length but is certainly designed to protect the thighs, letting your gaiters do most of the rest.

The knee length range is quite limited as jackets are generally (highly) priced for the high street client, looking for something smart and stylish. In this regard it remains alas, a cut below the rest.

From memory, Mont is generally the cheapest in this limited range. Goretex? "Hydronaute"? A cheaper Goretex? Can't remember. An old popular has been the Pallin Vista, weighing in at ~800gms but a bomb-proof piece liked by many. There's a tendency to go overboard with supplementary zips and pieces in order to gain an edge, as with packs.

The mont jacket in question is probably over 20 years old, pre-hydronaut- It's def gore-tex. I'm considering it for it's voluminous, tent like properties but unsure as to whether it is still waterproof (even though it's hardly used). I reckon i'll go the bum-length paclite top and a pair of soft-shell 3/4 pants over my gaiters. Not waterproof but i can handle warm+wet legs.

[Strider]

Why soft shell? IMO you would be better off with thermals

[slparker]

light/windproof/stretchy. Prob warmer than thermals if it gets really cold... saves me carrying waterproof trousers, don't get wet and baggy like thermals (esp. merino).
But polypro thermals might be a better choice I suppose.

[wayno]

needs to be pretty heavy softshell pants to be warmer than thermals when they are wet. polypro dries out a lot faster although the softshell cuts the wind and polypro doesnt

[slparker]

they're gore windstopper cycling 3/4 length pants, overlap nicely with gaiters. probably are overkill given that I'm not expecting icy winds and snow. Probably underkill in torrential rain. I'm just trying to get by without taking waterproof pants.

[Strider]

Those things probably weigh more than waterproof pants?

[slparker]

no, less than 300g. My waterproof pants are around 500 or thereabouts. 200g isn't a dealbreaker... it's just that I find taking them on and off a pain in the *&%$#! and softshell shorts are more versatile. anyway, I'm sure I'll go with what I'm used to and take the waterproof pants/jacket combo.