new arcteryx down/synthetic composite jackets

[wayno]

arcteryx are making down jackets, they put synthetic insulation in some areas of the jacket where there's either a high wear factor, or high likelihood of moisture exposure

http://arcteryx.com/DownGuide.aspx?language=EN

[Mark F]

So you pay the premium for down and get the life expectancy of the synthetic fill - not to mention the brand premium. Why not use the new water resistant down?

I like the line "Moisture is not prone to compacting and remains warm when wet." ?????

"Synthetic insulation is mapped to areas prone to moisture while the core is warmed by 100% down." Down doesn't warm anything - it insulates.

I think the marketing department has run amok.

[wayno]

I find it hard to disagree with you Mark...
they are using coreloft synthetic insulation which markets itself as resilient, but i can't think of any garments i've read about before that have this, durability unknown.
As you point out, synthetic insulation has a reputation for poor durability compared to down http://coreloft.com/

[slparker]

is the life of synthetic fill determined by chronology, use or storage conditions?

ie. will my snowgear last 20 years because I only use it a few weeks a year or will it last 2 years because it degrades with time?

[wayno]

i read one review on backpackinglight,, it degenerated a lot faster than down for the amount of use,, after a year of use a couple of primaloft jackets were worse for wear. the fill wasn't even throught the jacket anymore, its not quite like down where you can shake the item and redistribute it. they didnt give specifics about what was happening to the fibre whether they were breaking....

[icefest]

is the life of synthetic fill determined by chronology, use or storage conditions?

ie. will my snowgear last 20 years because I only use it a few weeks a year or will it last 2 years because it degrades with time?

As far as I know..
Considering all synthetic insulation is made of petrochemical polymers (excluding rayon) you would expect some degradation with bad storage conditions, like ozone exposure.
Other than that, you would expect some fatigue due to flexing of the filaments with movement and packing/unpacking.

TL;DR expect some degradation in storage but much more with use.

[Mark F]

Most puffy synthetic insulation is made of crimped polyester fibres which give it loft when teased out. Polyester holds a crimp under normal conditions but the crimp can be altered/destroyed by heat and pressure - think ironing a polyester shirt or slacks. Puffy synthetic insulated gear needs to be stored uncompressed in normal temperatures. Leaving a tightly stuffed synthetic sleeping bag in a hot car for a few hours can be enough to reduce its insulation effectiveness quite noticeably.

Nylon on the other hand doesn't hold a crimp so it is not used for puffy insulation.

[slparker]

Ta. Good to know. I have discovered to my horror that modern walking boots DO degrade over time, or rather the cushioney stuff in the sole does, particularly when exposed to 40+ degree australian temperatures

[icefest]

I've been thinking about this down/synthetic combination....

What would you guys think of a jacket where the down sections have a VBL below them (so that there is a very low condensation risk)
and the synthetic is use in high perspiration areas.

I've attached some theoretical drawings: (Sorry about the dodgy paint job)

[GPSGuided]

You should have patented it first. Unfortunately, it's now public domain.