Brands that aren't/are what they once were-Insert Brand

[Snowzone]

Have just experienced another annoying gear failure with a Macpac water bladder. I purchased my first Macpac bladder 18 months ago and had the bite valve fail on me pretty much straight away by disconnecting itself from the tube every time I wanted to drink. After returning that bladder to the store, the replacement bladder pretty much did the same thing. So I set to work and replaced the Macpac valve with another type (unsure of brand) and that worked fine.
I've just returned from a walk where yet again it has failed on me, this time it has developed a series of pin prick holes around the seal of where you fill the bladder. Its now in the bin
I'm now looking for an alternative brand that will not lead to anymore LBL's I hope.

[wayno]

i've found camelbaks pretty rock solid, lasted me for years..., they use surgical grade silicone rubber on teh bite valve and the bag...

[Snowzone]

i've found camelbaks pretty rock solid, lasted me for years..., they use surgical grade silicone rubber on teh bite valve and the bag...

Thanks Wayno, its probably what I will go with but I'm just doing some reading up on the Source Bladders that GPS Guided has a thread about.

[wayno]

i've got a source bladder too but havent used it a massive amount, looks a pretty good construction and materials though

[McWade]

I've also found camelbaks to be solid bladders. They're so widely available that I'll probably just stick with them in future. I have a 3l camelbak (don't recall the model off top of head) that I purchased in 2005 that has been used at least weekly since then for walking and biking in multiple packs and the only issue I've had with it is that the suspension hook that clips into the loop or hook in a pack has snapped. The newer models seem to have a better design in this regard.

[McWade]

The bladder I referred to above came with a Camelback Mule from that year. The current Mule looks like quite a different pack but the bladder looks very similar which is the Antidote model 3L reservoir.

[Snowzone]

kathmandu must have put the willies up a lot of local companies and had them wondering how much they'd have to change to survive... they continue to rake in the money, killing off the independant retailers, another long standing shop just closed in auckland, I can't think of any independant ones left in wellington, and only one left in auckland that i know of, its only really the smaller provincial towns where they are still alive...
either that or theres the temptation to try and emulate kathmandu and their turnover.
a few decades ago, macpac only had one serious rival, arthur ellis but since then the competition has multiplied and become a lot stiffer... so to their credit macpac still survived when many other companies havent... they've gone from just making outdoor gear to selling it exclusively in their own chain of stores on the high street.
i know someone who successfully ran an independant outdoor shop in wellington for several decades, but in the end lost out to the chain stores and their fierce pricing...
snowgum had a presence in nz for a a long time, i believe they started as the scout shop? they have
since closed all shops in NZ.
I wont debate the quality of macpacs gear...

I don't think Snowgum will stay open in Oz for much longer either. The death bell tolls. Yes Wayno they did start as the Scout shops but somewhere along the line got confused between outdoor gear and travel gear to its detriment.

[wayno]

kathmandu seem to keep their eyes open to whats going on designwise with other outdoor clothing makers and keep bringing out new product to make their copies of some of the new more popular gear around, i see a couple of their newer jackets are rip offs of mont bell designs only twice as heavy. you see people around dressed head to toe in their gear, i wonder how much that is a case of a certain part of the population being money rich and time poor and not shopping around....
actually at times i'm guilty of being virtually dressed in old kathmandu gear on short walks. it spares my other gear from getting worn out as quickly...

[slparker]

I have about 5 pairs of kathmandu nylon shorts, a couple of pair from the late 90's. they just won't wear out - I would have bought them (on sale of course) for around 50 bucks each. i reckon I have got 100s of bucks worth of wear out of them - I live in them in summer. I have no idea what their latest versions are like. I have a windstopper vest from mid 2000s i reckon - it's the most versatile cycling/walking/skiing garment I own. I have a daypack from the early 2000s with some fancy 'illuminite' coating that is blindingly reflective in headlights but dark green in normal light - i wore it as late as last night on an evening walk around the hills- it is the best micropack for walking/biking that i have ever used.

yes Kathmandu have gone to the dogs, but just occasionally they smash out a brilliant design that lasts at least a decade of constant use. Calling them crap is like calling arcteryx brilliant when they still make crappy poser beanies made in china like every other manufacturer. You just have to seperate out the good designs from the marketing and fashion arm of any brand.

One of the worst bits of kit I ever bought was the petzl headlight in the 90s. It was so bad i had to buy another one to make sure... and that one was bad too. never worked for more than one trip without failing.

As for camelbak - they just do one thing, and do it well - but i have to say that I have had issues with their 3l 'tactical' pack - the o ring fails around the filling port. Not what you need when you're relying on 3l of water. I now rarely use a camelbak for walking, and never for overnight trips. All it takes is for your back to be resting on the bite valve for your water to disapper into the dirt. Great for daywalks/biking though.

[wayno]

i got their shorts around ten years ago. sound like the same design, they've faded and a bit of stitching has finally givn way but, no sign of wear on the material.. use them on day walks, prefer something lighter on overnight walks, find they dont dry very fast...
i had their stormfront rainshell. 850 grams... would be virtually indestructible for scrub bashing,, but just too heavy for any other purpose. i bought it ten years ago, and i havent done much scrub bashing so didnt need it, the guy in the shop said it was the jacket to have if you tramped. i was still naive on the latest gear back then....

[slparker]

yes I forgot to mention their jackets... I have a gore-tex jacket from 2005 that weighs 1.1 kg and is hiplength.....

[Travis22]

Ive got about 6 pairs of one Kathmandu Shorts model and 4 Pairs of one of their pants. The shorts ive had for many years and most are starting to wear out here and there, the pockets starting to get holes in them etc. The pants, ive only bought them in the last 12-24months but they are IMO extremely good quality. Id say 90% of the stuff they sell now is junk to me but i still manage to find the odd gem in there when the prices are 50% off. (Both my shorts and pants were purchased at 50% + off.)

One of my oldest remaining bits of hiking gear i have is my first Petzl headlamp I vaguely recall it was quite expensive (at the time and given my income) but its been faultless. As a matter of fact ive only just purchased a new headlamp this week (for our upcoming upper snowy river trip in a fortnight). As much as i love / hate Zebralight ive purchased their H502W headlamp... I wouldnt be surprised if my old faithful Petzl lives on long after the H502W.

Snowgum... Snowzone hit the nail on the head. I cannot believe they opened a shop in the new area at Fountain Gate. (They have a small wall in there for Scouts - uniforms, books, patches etc.) but a lot of the stuff elsewhere in the shop looks like travel gear to me too. Id be shocked if it was still open there in 2014.

Travis.

[Snowzone]

Snowgum... Snowzone hit the nail on the head. I cannot believe they opened a shop in the new area at Fountain Gate. (They have a small wall in there for Scouts - uniforms, books, patches etc.) but a lot of the stuff elsewhere in the shop looks like travel gear to me too. Id be shocked if it was still open there in 2014.

Travis.

I'd be surprised if its still open next week. There are a large number of Snowgum stores that will be closing their doors this coming weekend.

[zhenjie]

Looks like many of you were right. Snowgum in Administration

http://www.smh.com.au/business/retail/s ... 2wavg.html

[Dolerite Walker]

Any topic will inevitably attract differing opinions. Where businesses are concerned, the consumer's wallet has a powerful voice.

[LuxLuthor05]

I opened an account just now, to provide my two bobs worth on this thread (plus, I've found myself regularly reading this forum for various topics, so I might as well join the community!). To be honest, I've so far only read the first two pages of comments. YES, I am aware of the age of this thread.

The OPs post is of a very real concern in the modern world, and it is entirely possible that the OP has heard all sorts of wild and wonderful stories about the "good ol' days" of when Macpac "used to" make great stuff. It is entirely possible that the same story tellers, have noticed the new more modern Macpac products, and has unrealistically compared things from the "good ol' days" to more modern materials that are lighter-weight and therefore don't feel as if they can stand up to the same kind of punishment. Making assumptions of changes in quality, based on such a comparison, would be misguided at the very least. I am replying to this post in 2016. We have more materials, manufacturing methods, and scientific research to base all new designs upon, than we have ever had before. This means that OBVIOUSLY any GOOD company that wants to advance forward into the modern era, will be entertaining the ideas of these new and improved materials, and possibly even using them. This in itself, only shows GOOD business practice. It is NOT something to be frowned upon. The fact that Macpac still sell a good variety of canvas packs, whilst other companies drop canvas in favour of lighter products, meanwhile ignoring those of us who value durability more than we value the whole "ultra-light" concept, is admirable, and I appreciate having the extra options for my upcoming new trekking pack purchase.

As far as design flaws and genuine quality concerns go, it is simply unreasonable to expect any ONE brand to be the best at EVERYTHING. Different companies/brands excel in different areas. Many brands strive to excel in ALL areas, however with a product range as vast as Macpacs, a lot of that 'excelling' may simply come down to trial and error. Product testing can only go so far.... at the end of the day, it is down to the consumer as to whether or not the product holds up in the real world - Macpac back that up, with excellent warranty support and contractibility, meaning when a product fails, they are there to help. MANY brands are constantly making small modifications to their products, especially when they notice these products being returned with all the same problem/s. An example of one of these problems that Macpac may very will change, is when I was recently updating my gaiters. I was looking at the Macpac Cascade Gaiters. The fastening clip at the top of these gaiters seemed to me to be flimsy and perhaps unreliable. I pointed this out to the staff member who was assisting me, and she said she could see what I meant, and she promised to send that feedback off to be considered. I ended up purchasing Sea to Summit gaiters. Around the same time, my partner was in the market for a new puffer jacket (I already had a RAB puffer jacket). We checked out the Macpac Sundowner jacket, and found it was every bit as good as my RAB (possibly even better), and we bought it on the spot. Excellent value jacket, that served her excellently during our recent alpine adventures.

I am only a recent Macpac convert, as it is only recently that I have moved near one of their stores, but I now check Macpac EVERY time I need new outdoor gear. Their products are constantly on sale at extremely competitive prices, and the price we normally pay is definitely worth it for the high quality we are receiving. They were also happy to do a random swap of the puffer jacket when my partner decided she didn't like the colour she got. I will always put my money behind a good thing, because too many good things are disappearing, especially consumer products.

I can definitely see where I think the OP was coming from, as many brands have reduced their product standards to resemble little more than baseline useability.... I felt the OP seemed to be asking a question, to confirm whether the horror stories he had heard were true. In answer to that question: No. The horror stories are not true. They come from people who are comparing apples and oranges (older heavier manufacturing methods, verses newer more modern methods of manufacturing things that are lighter.

I am impressed to find a Macpac rep/owner being so present on the forum, and so hardcore about backing his/her product. It is good.

I can only hope that Macpac continue to provide quality products at reasonable prices (few things anger me more, than having total equipment failure HALFWAY through a trip, due to some *&%$@!? deciding he/she wants a little more money in their pocket, and no longer gives a S%*# about the customers experience or safety). Safety is a very real concern.... as many people are buying Macpac packs to take into extremely remote areas. Many people are buying Macpac alpine clothing to take into extremely cold environments. Many people are buying Macpac drink bottles because the human body NEEDS water to survive.

Finally, in reference to the comparison between Kathmandu and Macpac... I don't think it is reasonable to place the brands into the same sentence. I went into Kathmandu recently to have a look at their beat-around-town raincoats (assuming they would be budget friendly). They wanted $750AU for a RAINCOAT!!! :O And that wasn't even the concerning part... the raincoat felt flimsy, and when I went to test the zip, the zip literally broke off in my hand. I approached a staff member to ask whether the price-tag was a mistake, considering the raincoat wasn't even capable of hanging brand new on a rack without breaking.... the staff member told me that was the correct price, and "those zips keep doing that... but should be fine if you're really careful". I thought this was disgusting, and couldn't fathom how a business owner could possibly be comfortable peddling such a joke of a product so shamelessly. If my personal experience is anything to go by, then Macpac simply cannot in any way be compared to Kathmandu.


I will continue to shop happily at Macpac. I am hell-bent on only ever buying things that are of top quality, as I HATE buying twice, and I HATE equipment letting me down mid-use.


I hope my two cents worth is of value to someone, I simply do not wish for a good company with integrity, to be bad mouthed. NOR do I wish for a person looking for guidance, to be insulted for it. Forums are designed for people to share information, advice, and experiences.

Just previewed my comment....... holy **** it's long..... SORRY!!

[Franco]

For many years I have posted this comment :

What I miss from the good old days are two things.
1) gear that did not brake
2) repair shops.

[Stroller]

I"ve only read the last two posts and in response to what was said about Kathmandu, well we all know they don't make quality their hallmark. That said, I haven't bought much from them but what i have bought has been excellent. And both items were bought back in 2003 before the change of company. My input is not meant be a generalisation on the whole company or any other whole company. I bought a fleece jacket back then which hasn't been worn a great deal but it has had some rough treatment and amazingly it still looks almost as new as it was when i got it out of the packet. Its only slightly heavier than my rab puff jacket and I don't like the colour. But it is as tough as they come and warm.

The other thing i bought back then which on special was a goose down mummy sleeping bag i got on a massive discount for $257. The design has been perfect for me. my only regret is that there has been a mild loss of feathers inside and so there are thin spots but i've addressed that bringing along a summer sleeping bag as well which weighs another 400g. Since its now quite an old bag, it not a really light weight item to begin with but i have zero complaints about this bag. The zips are still good, the stithcing has stayed in tact. I've only washed it once because i always wear clothes when i use it to keep odours under control.

That said, next sleeping bag i buy will be synthetic because the way they pluck the feathers from the chests of live ducks is just horrific. I've owned ducks and i've plucked them when dead. Duck skin is very very thin and easily breaks. The live plucking of animals would be at least as painful as pulling hair out of human heads and for that reason we should stop buying anything made of down. I am sure it would be the same for goose down.


http://gentleworld.org/how-down-feathers-are-collected/

http://www.vier-pfoten.org/en/campaigns ... -industry/

So the message i would give is judge every item on its own merits and don't get too brand loyal. And don't assume that top price always means best value.

[GPSGuided]

What I miss from the good old days are two things.
1) gear that did not brake
2) repair shops.

Aren't they contradictory? LOL

[Franco]

Often people forget that we used to repair gear either ourselves or indeed taking the item to a repair shop.
The difference now is that items are proportionally cheaper to buy and labour is expensive.

[dagsands]

That said, next sleeping bag i buy will be synthetic because the way they pluck the feathers from the chests of live ducks is just horrific. I've owned ducks and i've plucked them when dead. Duck skin is very very thin and easily breaks. The live plucking of animals would be at least as painful as pulling hair out of human heads and for that reason we should stop buying anything made of down. I am sure it would be the same for goose down.


http://gentleworld.org/how-down-feathers-are-collected/

http://www.vier-pfoten.org/en/campaigns ... -industry/

...

Hi Stroller
I appreciate the conviction and compassion from which your view point is based. I completely agree that some methods of feather collection (down, peacock feathers) are sickeningly cruel.

As a meat eater, I have always held the view that if an animal is to be killed for food then we should aim to use as much of that animal as possible – the nose to tail philosophy. So as part of this philosophy if I eat duck, I would disagree with its feathers (removed post mortem) from going to waste.

I wear a range of animal products including down, leather, wool and silk and prefer these products to synthetics (depending on purpose) for a wide range of reasons.

I agree, as I'm sure many on this forum would, that the practise of live plucking is abhorrent. However there are many manufacturers of down products that use responsible (RDS) or traceable (TDS) down. You may find this information helpful - it could be used as a starting point to find out which outdoor companies follow these standards. https://outdoorindustry.org/press-relea ... -imminent/
Back in 2013 Wayno posted about companies that make ethical down products here http://www.bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic ... 15&t=15259

I understand your concern about down is from a humane treatment of animals perspective which I totally agree with as I said before.
Another perspective is the impact of synthetics on our global ecology - substituting synthetics which often (not always) have a significant footprint both in their manufacture and in landfill.

Just food for thought for anyone who is interested in the down industry, and thank you Stroller for encouraging me and others to update our awareness of where the industry is at in improving its practices.