The Kovea Spider (KB-1109) Remote Canister Stove

[Strider]

I should have listened to you earlier Avatar. I trialled some stranded copper wire twisted up to occupy around half the diameter of the preheat tube. Although I could only insert as far as the first bend I saw a significant improvement and the sputtering is invisible to the eye and now only detectable via a very mild noise emitted when the stove is run at at full bore inverted. With some stiffer wire (e.g. guitar string) I will hopefully be able to insert it further around the preheat loop and eliminate it entirely

[Nuts]

Well, iv'e had a chance to test. It works perfectly! No splutter at all. Inverted it also seems fine.. until about 3/4 throttle then it lets out belching flame balls.. quite spectacular really!

Definite quality differences it seems. I like the design, sturdy and compact, probably fine at normal use settings. How long will the can end thread last?

[Strider]

I gave guitar string a go but it was too stiff. Got some 0.63mm copper wire and was able to insert all the way to rhe main bend in the prehwat loop and that has done the trick

[Avatar]

Thanks Strider for trying it and reporting back. I would expect the copper would have less chance of corrosion anyway - which could block the jet. And it is a reversible solution too.
The guitar wire might be suitable for a pricker if you can find the jet. I haven't taken the head apart so I haven't found it.
I suspect it may limit the "fully on" BTU output, but that was unusable as things were anyway, and as I said, anything over about 1/3 fully on seems to have about the same effective heat output anyway.
You may not eliminate the choofing entirely. The stove I tested choofs a little bit when cranked up. Nothing I'm worried about. I'd be happy with the improvement you've made and leave it.
Job done, hopefully - and you've still got the option of the return.

[sambar358]

After all this "stove talk" I decided to grab one of these Kovia Spiders to compliment my Moonwalker. It arrived today and after giving it a test run both in normal "cylinder up" and "inverted" mode it seems to go very well both ways. Certainly in "inverted" it is less responsive to flame adjustment as is my Moonwalker but this one certainly didn't pop or choof excessively when the flame was turned-up to a high setting with the canister inverted. The Moonwaker seems more robust and stable but the Spider certainky is small and light and I'm sure it'll go very well this winter. Cheers

s358

[MercatorGear]

The Spider manufacturer told me yesterday that the choofing is normal especially when on full power and before the pipe has heated fully. Of more concern to them is the unauthorised eBay seller which is shipping domestic "beta" models to international customers. These betas were intended for sale only in Korea to help identify and iron out any quality problems prior to serving international customers. If your Spider has instructions in Korean only, then it's possibly one of these domestic betas, so if you can, ask your supplier to replace it with an authorised export version. MG

[Strider]

This is very interesting - yes it had instructions in Korean only. A replacement has already been sent but I have not received it yet.


The choofing was not due to inadequate preheating.

[Strider]

Replacement received. Documentation all in Korean.

A little choofing when run flat out with canister inverted, but doesn't pop and fart like the first one I was sent. I might try some copper wire in the preheat loop again just to see if it has any effect but overall I'm happy that this one is a significant improvement over its predecessor.

*EDIT*

Copper wire inserted. Runs perfectly

[sambar358]

Interesting about the Korean instructions on some of those Spiders. I bought one off an Ebay seller a couple of months ago and the instructions are just in English so I assume from that it's the "internatonal sale" model. Runs well regardless of cannister orientation without any tweaking and it'll be a good little lightweight stove for me this winter I think. Cheers

s358

[MercatorGear]

That’s good news. KOVEA’s aim is to provide fully certified products through approved local retailers in each country so that quality can be guaranteed. Meanwhile if you buy from a non-approved eBay sellers in Korea or HK it is a good idea to insist on getting the latest international model to avoid those pre-production domestic betas. We are also looking at ways to make the Spider even better, so any practical ideas are very welcome. MG

[Strider]

We are also looking at ways to make the Spider even better, so any practical ideas are very welcome. MG

TITANIUM!!!

[MercatorGear]

Strider, you are not alone in asking for more titanium on the Spider. We are looking at how to reduce weight further while maintaining a reasonable price and absolutely top quality and durability. Titanium isn't always the best material to achieve these objectives party because it can be quite difficult to manufacture to high quality standards required. And if you add a lot of cost with well manufactured titanium then there is a temptation to reduce cost elsewhere by using cheaper materials/components which then have implications for durability and safety; not something that KOVEA is prepared to do. But we are listening to users and working on this, so thanks for adding your voice. Any additional ideas are very welcome. MG

[Nuts]

We have used ours for several weeks. The side-throw flame works but a bigger head would be even better to spread the 'hot spot'.

[MercatorGear]

Hi Nuts, the KOVEA Spider was designed from the outset with a narrow burner to make it extremely packable and so it can fit inside various small pots (e.g. MSR Titan Kettle – with room for canister, Trangia kettle, 0.6 litre pots, etc). Its flat shape when packed also makes it truly pocket-able. Adding a wider burner would lose this unique packable feature.

When cooking with the Spider we get best results on medium to low flame, using enough oil, and keeping the food moving around the pan. You can reduce hot-spotting further by using aluminium rather than titanium pans, and thicker pans are of course better than very thin ones. We generally only use the Spider on full power for fast water boiling rather than for cooking. The narrow burner also allows for a low steady flame which is more difficult to achieve with a wider burner. I hope that explains why it’s the way it is. But if there is a lot of interest, we would certainly look at a wider burner option. Cheers, MG

[Strider]

MG would you mind telling of your affiliation with Kovea? Just interested

[MercatorGear]

Hi Strider, yes of course; MG became an independent agent for Kovea in the UK last year. We are not an official mouth piece, but because we get to talk with the company about their thinking and the technology, and because like quite a few folks here, we are doing some of our own stove research and experimentation, it seems like a good idea to share some of this, particularly the stuff which isn’t necessarily common knowledge. Hope it's of value! Cheers, MG

[Nuts]

Thanks for the involvement and explanation MG.

[hikin_jim]

Well, I'm obviously (very) "late for the party", but here I am.

I'm sorry to hear about QC problems (apparently) with the Kovea Spider. I've had no such problems with the unit I have. What's happening (and maybe you've already surmised this) is that the pre-heat loop is a bit off spec in some fashion. Probably the crimp at the bend isn't quite right. If the diameter is too large, laminar flow can occur. In laminar flow, the liquefied gas in the center of the pre-heat loop flows smoothly along and stays in the core of the tubing, never getting hot enough to vaporize. The sputtering you're hearing is brief spurts of still liquid gas hitting the flame area and vaporizing. Indeed, as someone said earlier in the thread, it is similar to what happened with the old Svea 123's.

The solution is, as has been already worked out here, to insert some wire up the tube. All you really need to do is break up the laminar flow. If turbulent flow occurs, the turbulence will mix things up such that all of the liquefied gas is vaporized; you won't have that stays-liquid flow up the pre-heat tubing. The wire also reduces interior volume which means that the flame has less gas to heat. The wire, particularly copper or similar, can also conduct heat. All three of these things (breaking up laminar flow, reducing volume, and conducting additional heat) will eliminate the sputtering.

Sorry for not replying earlier. I got a fairly demanding job in mid-2013, and I just couldn't keep up with the number of forums that I used to follow. The good news/bad news is my group is being eliminated as part of a restructuring so I should have perhaps a bit more time at least for now. There is this little bit about needing to find new work though.

HJ

[icefest]

Ouch. I'm sorry to hear that Jim. I hope that it won't be too hard to find another job. :S

[hikin_jim]

Thank you.

But I won't respond to any offers that say "Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful."
They made 'em tough back then. Shackleton's adventures are nothing short of amazing.

HJ

[Thatoutdoorsyguy]

Hi guys. Apologies if I have missed the detail, but I cannot seem to locate a vendor who sells these in Australia. They are online (eBay), but don't appear to be with Paddy Pallin or backpacking light ect. Is this correct? Thanks.

[Strider]

Yes that is correct DB.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[Thatoutdoorsyguy]

Thanks Strider