The Ultimate cook setup for me

[DanShell]

Im not wanting to ignite any debates on gas vs alcohol, and I know there is a lot of information about all this already but I have some very specific questions in regards to my cooking set up.

I am a Trangia tragic and always will be but the more I am doing walks where I am not sharing the more I realise my old faithful Trangia is simply too heavy for one.

So its time to update and I may as well go as light as I can. I do like to bake using the trangia but I am also getting sick of that so now all my cooking is about rehydration or obviously only about boiling water, so I have some specific questions for those that can help.

I know there's an abundance of tiny alcohol or gas stoves, windshields and pots on the market so I am not really after specific advice on what one to buy but I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I will buy one titanium pot around the 600ml size and some sort of light weight wind shield, perhaps one of the trail designs calder cone set ups if i stay with alcohol.

So it comes down to the cooker I will use. Coming from a Trangia I am experienced using the metho burner but I am finding that I tend to go through quite a bit of metho and giving the weight of the metho container and the need to carry a bit extra just in case I can be carrying approx 500 grams of fuel and its container just for a 1-2 night trip.

Are the 12-10 stoves or Zelphs stoves any more efficient than the trangia burner? If not I would like to explore gas, which I know nothing about.

I see most gas containers come in 230g or 110g bottles. Is that the gross weight including the gas inside? If so what is the tare weight of the empty container?

A lot of gas burners I am researching claim up around 60 minutes of burn time for a 230g container and only take a couple of minutes to boil a cup of water. So at that rate, the weight to boil ratio appears a lot better than my trangia set up. Are these figures correct?
I am not one to worry about the speed in which it takes to boil water so that aspect does not bother me in the slightest. I am purely trying to figure out the most efficient and lightest systems for me.

Most, in fact all so far of my walks are under 5 days. I may have a couple of longer walks on the wish list in the future but at this stage we are only talking about 5 days or less.

My only concerns with gas is perhaps the need to carry an extra container for just in case once one starts getting low. Or perhaps I would always carry one for the just in case scenario? So that potentially gets my fuel weight up around the 500g mark like the alcohol set up. Am I correct in this way of thinking?

So ultimately I guess I am wanting advice form those of you who are experienced and have been down the alcohol and gas track to help me make my decision.

Thanks for any help in advance and I apologise if these questions seem repetitive in the forum.

[perfectlydark]

I think the gas container is gross weight with about half that in actual gas weight. Think i read that here somewhere

[Mark F]

230g gas canisters contain 230g of gas. The empty canister weighs approximately 140g. Same with the 110g canisters - 110g gas and the canister weighs about 100 grams.

Gas usage for 2 about 30g of gas per day. Solo I allow 25g per day. 230g canister is 7 days with partner or 9 days solo. I use a 110g canister for solo trips up to 4 days.
For 2 of us equates to 5 boils of 500 to 600ml (tea at breakfast, soup, hot chocolate and an evening meal).

For efficiency do not run a gas stove at full bore - keep it at a moderate setting.

You also should look for a relatively squat pot rather than a tall narrow one. I use the same 900ml pot when walking solo or with my partner.
My kit for a 2 to 4 day solo walk is about 360g - pot, cosy, gas stove, stuff sac, lighter, full 110g canister and wind screen. In very cold conditions add 45g for an invertable gas stove

[andrewp]

The weights are net weight of the gas. The gross weight of the 230g canister is about 360g (it varies a little between brands). The MSR 110g gross weight is 210g.
I get up to 9 nights with 230g, but everyone is different. Just weigh the cannister when you get back to see how much you've used (and of course how much you have left). Gas usage varies quite a lot with the weather, so I wouldn't go on a 10 day walk with just a single canister. If there's a group and you all use gas, you can take 1 or 2 spares for the group.
Cheers Andrew

[DanShell]

Thanks for the advice so far gents.
It appears as though my metho days may be numbered. (something sounds a bit sinister about that statement!)

I can imagine gas users would have some cylinders at home that are low and ready to use on an overnight hike perhaps and just take full cylinders on multi day trips rather than using up the low one AND carrying another full one. To save carrying two cylinders back out?

Just on the very cold conditions statement Mark, I am assuming gas won't burn (or is unreliable) in cold conditions? So therefore I should buy a gas stove that will take a remote inverted canister? Is that correct?
Once again thanks, I am a total newbie to gas. Well in the hiking sense anyway.

[horsecat]

Just on the very cold conditions statement Mark, I am assuming gas won't burn (or is unreliable) in cold conditions? So therefore I should buy a gas stove that will take a remote inverted canister? Is that correct?

I don't think that is much of an issue here in Tassi. I've used my MSR Reactor Gas Cooker in far colder conditions that we experience down here. The MSR does work well in windy conditions thus using less gas though.

I can imagine gas users would have some cylinders at home that are low and ready to use on an overnight hike perhaps and just take full cylinders on multi day trips rather than using up the low one AND carrying another full one. To save carrying two cylinders back out?

I always take two canisters on an overnighter just in case. Doesn't matter if I use the extra one or not, I still have to take it back out with me.

Also, there's some really nice meals that can be cooked in the MSR and Jetboils rather than using that dehydrated crap

[Mickl]

Couple of things I have worked out with my set up.

I started off trying to go as small and light as possible so went with a 700ml titanium pot and really small fire maple stove (fits direct to gas canister) but after a few walks found that the pot was a little small to store all my gear in and I had to carry a cup of some sort anyway for soups/energy drink mixes as well as cutlery, stove, cleaning gear, lighter etc. Packing it all was a bit of a pain and after a few multi day walks I decided I would rather carry a small bit of extra weight for the functionality of a larger set up.

I now carry a GSI Soloist set up that has a 1100ml pot, cup, cosy and spork (replaced with titanium folding spork). It also fits a stove and gas can inside so is really easy to pack up and carry. The weight is a little more but worth it for the ease of use etc. Also If I take my daughter etc I could easily do a 2 person meal in the pot as its larger....You mentioned 'we' in your post so I presume you have a walking partner. If you have a set up that's big enough for 2 you can always get your partner to carry the larger canister and you carry a small as back up or so forth....I'm with Horse cat and usually carry 2 as well just in case.

As far as stoves go I would look at the Kovea Spider as it packs really small and will run inverted cannisters (great if you plan on doing any really cold weather trip) or perhaps a small fire maple stove that attaches direct to a canister if you want really small and light. If you're with someone else you can get a GSI dualist set up as well that has an extra cup and spork (not sure if pot is bigger or not....)

As far as weights of cannisters go the other seem pretty spot on with that. I did some very basic tests with the kovea when I first got it and found that I was using about 8-10 grams of gas per 500ml boil if that gives you an idea of usage per day.

Anyway, I guess my advice would be that smaller and lighter is not always better (except for when it comes to the weight of carrying it!)

Mick

[DanShell]

Mick thanks very much for your advice. I am definitely hearing what your saying.
I want my kit to fit into the pot, including my small bits and pieces.
I am happy to carry a little extra to retain some convenience.
I'm at work atm but I'll research the stoves you mention when I get the opportunity.
I do walk with my wife at times and even with friends that I share the cooking gear, but when I'm sharing I think my trangia is the best solution for me. Having said that I may look into pots that fit inside each other and see what I come up with.

[perfectlydark]

Sweet thanks for the clarifications

[DarrenM]

Just on the very cold conditions statement Mark, I am assuming gas won't burn (or is unreliable) in cold conditions? So therefore I should buy a gas stove that will take a remote inverted canister? Is that correct?

Depends on how cold.

In Oz, it's not that cold or high and over the last couple of decades I've consistently been using an MSR pocket Rocket and more recently a Jetboil Sumo setup for Backcountry touring etc. There may be an advantage in the inverted setups etc but the simple answer is, Gas stoves work in Oz with minimal problems.

I've used every brand of gas on the market in the snow and they all work, but I tend to stick with MSR and Jetboil canisters.

An example of my usage was 6 days across the Main Range in August (Trip report here) using only two 230gm canisters. This meant melting a lot of snow for dehy meals and water each day. I usually try and supplement the water I have each day by scooping fresh snow along the way. I do hear people saying on a regular basis you cant cook efficiently etc in the cold but I've managed quite well for years.

Statistically it may not be the most efficient but it definitely works. I only boil water and rarely cook over my stoves though so horses for courses.

[horsecat]

There's another recent thread about gas cookers and cold. I found they work fine in all temperatures.

I only boil water and rarely cook over my stoves though so horses for courses

Yep, I only boil water in my Reactor and use sealed food pouches when cooking

[stry]

My gas usage is pretty much in line with Mark F, except that I only rely on 7-8 days solo for a 230 canister. The canister would last me 9 days though.

I use the stove for breakfast and evening meal only. Either the tiny little FireMaple or Roger's stove, depending on what weather and temps are expected.

I can't add anything to the detailed answers you have received already, but I can cut to the chase and say that I worked out a long time ago, and somewhat to my surprise, that gas is the lightest option for me. I had always thought shellite would be lightest, but when I actually worked it all out, particularly with the featherweight gas stoves, gas won. I don't like the junk aspect of the canisters, vs. liquid fuel, but use them anyway.

A good set of digital scales will let you keep track of how many days are left in a canister, and minimize "just in case" weight.

I would find a 600mil pot messy, particularly on those days when I might cook up a two man Back Country meal for myself. In fact I doubt that a two man could be easily prepared in a 600mil. Oh BTW, I don't cook in the bag. I figure keeping the pot clean is easier than trying to clean the bag, and carrying bags with usually greasy cooked food traces is more likely to bring critters.

I use an MSR Titan, which I think is around 850 and wouldn't want anything smaller for solo use.

[Scottyk]

The caldera cone titanium version can be used with a gas burner with the pot you choose them to make if for. I use mine with a modified fire maple remote canister burner and it works great. It is stable, light and efficient on gas. I can take pictures of this set up if you like.
I would echo other comments about cold weather. I am yet to encounter a time when I have had to invert a canister to cook a meal and I generally don't just eat freeze dried meals so I tend to cook for a little while.
I still take my big trangia and a gas burner for it when there is 2 or more to share the weight

[DanShell]

There's some great info in the replies so thanks for that I'm taking it all on board.
I am leaning towards a small light gas burner that I can use under a titanium pot and hopefully a wind shield like the Calder cone set up by trail designs.
I need the pot to be able to contain the whole set up so I think that may dictate the size more so than a few grams saved.
I'll go and have a look at the self contained kits such as the jet boil, they appear to make a titanium version that's very light.

There's no need for a photo Scotty unless you have one handy? Your setup is sounding like my vision of my ideal set up

[Ellobuddha]

Ive got a couple, a light firemaple copy 118g?? and a Kovea spider but I keep going back to the jetboil sol. Everything In one container is great. Its reliable for what I do - boil water for dehys or fluids.

I use it regularly. When I did the Overland my 110g Jetboil cannister ran out at breakfast at Narcissus. Nearly did the whole trip. I think I easy got 12 boils out of the one cannister.

[Scottyk]

There's no need for a photo Scotty unless you have one handy? Your setup is sounding like my vision of my ideal set up

I've got the time and I love playing with stoves!
This is my set up for one person
The burner is a FMS-117T that I pulled the legs/stand off and made my own that hold it at a good height under the pot.
The pot is a trangia 27 hence the handle, its what I had so that's what I ordered the cone to be made for.
I also cut a small slot at the base of the cone for the hose to run out.

[vicrev]

Looks good Scottyk, hope you didn't burn the carpet .......

[DanShell]

Thanks Scotty it's almost my perfect set up I think.
A titanium pot with a lid that will contain it all and I'll be set
I just need to work out what pot will work for me.

[DanShell]

Can someone give me the height and diameter of a 230g gas canister please? I'm at work on my phone so it's proving difficult to research

[Scottyk]

Can someone give me the height and diameter of a 230g gas canister please? I'm at work on my phone so it's proving difficult to research

110 wide x 95 high

[Strider]

One thing that has become apparent is that there are very very few pots that will hold a 230g canister. Watching this thread with interest!

[DanShell]

Thanks Scotty, night shift just became less boring

[Mickl]

Dan

for your info I can (just confirmed) fit a 110gram canister, kovea spider stove in its bag, spork and lighter etc in the GSI with the cup on top upside down and the lid on top of all of it. There's still room for other bits so if I was to use the smaller Firemaple FMS-116T stove there would be loads of room. It can fit a 230 gram canister and would fit a spork/lighter etc but the stove would be a bit tight due to the size of the burner head.

Forgot to mention in the earlier post that the bag that holds the pot set can also be used to wash up in as it holds water with welded seams.... If you want a pic of how it all looks send me your email and i'll email you a couple of pics.

One other thing I always take as well, especially if you need a bowl / cup for a second person is the bottom of the jalna yoghurt container. Fits perfectly over a 230g gas canister and weights under 10 grams....I believe I stole the idea from someone else on here so can't take the credit for that idea.....

Mick

[DanShell]

Thanks Mick I am liking the gsi kit for its value, functionality and it's not a bad weight considering it's contents.

I am thinking this pot with the fry pan lid http://www.traildesigns.com/cookware/to ... ot-ckw1100 will hold a gas cylinder, a small gas burner, spork, scourer and small cloth or am I under estimating the size of the gas burners?

Going off Scottys measurements I should have around 40mm x 110mm approx space left on top off the gas cylinder?
I'm wondering if I should go this way or give up trying to carry a 230g cylinder and look at only using 110's.

Thoughts?

[Mickl]

If you want to carry the larger canister with all your gear and stove you will need a fairly big pot, bigger than what you are wanting to carry I suspect. I usually carry two 110gram canisters for solo walking as I don't need the quantity or the weight of a small and a larger one. I sometimes will only carry one larger one but only if I'm with others that have another cooking method as back up. Main down side to the smaller canisters is they are not the most cost effective way to buy but with the devices that refill you can always fill them up from a larger one anyway once you have paid for a couple.

I like the GSI set up but as long as you can fit everything else but the canister in your pot then its not so bad as they are easy to store and locate in your pack unlike all the other bits and pieces.....

Those Toaks pots look good weight wise but I still think you may want a cup of some sort so you would want one that nests inside that system if possible....Some people don't like cooking in Titanium as well so depending on if you cook or boil that could be an issue. I only ever boiled water in mine so can't really add to that argument.

[simonm]

Dan - I have the GSI Soloist if you need to take a look at it prior to any purchases.

[dplanet]

Thanks Mick I am liking the gsi kit for its value, functionality and it's not a bad weight considering it's contents.

I am thinking this pot with the fry pan lid http://www.traildesigns.com/cookware/to ... ot-ckw1100 will hold a gas cylinder, a small gas burner, spork, scourer and small cloth or am I under estimating the size of the gas burners?

Going off Scottys measurements I should have around 40mm x 110mm approx space left on top off the gas cylinder?
I'm wondering if I should go this way or give up trying to carry a 230g cylinder and look at only using 110's.

Thoughts?

Have used it and like it. There is a wind shield attached to my pot and it takes only a few minutes for boiling water. It holds a 230g gaz canister, a lighter and washing & drying stuff. A 460g canister fits in it too. Pix attached.

[Moondog55]

Just going by my own limited experience with gas you may want to get a pot that uses an ordinary lid
I have never been able to find an effective use for the fryingpan style lid except as an eating dish. Also there isn't really a lot of difference in weight between a medium sized pot and a large one if it's titanium
For what it's worth a wider pot seems to work better with the little gas stoves but the old fashioned aluminium billy is only a little bit heavier.
Don't forget to add in the weight of the stability base for the little gas container if you do get a bigger wider pot, the cheap plastic base weighs 27 grams on my scales

EDIT
I should add that I have 2 systems, one is my emergency/brew kit for winter and the other would be my summer kit
Weight and compactness were the criteria for winter so the tiny WASP stove and 100 gram canister but even then I picked a bigger TOAKS pot

http://toaksoutdoor.com/titanium1300mlpot.aspx

The big MSR Titan cup fits inside that, 100 g canister and stove fits inside the cup but the base won't so the bigger pot was needed if everything was to fit inside.

[DanShell]

Have used it and like it. There is a wind shield attached to my pot and it takes only a few minutes for boiling water. It holds a 230g gaz canister, a lighter and washing & drying stuff. A 460g canister fits in it too. Pix attached.

Does your burner also fit in there? Is that a fire maple?

Does any one have the dimensions of a fire maple 117t folded up in its pouch?

MD, I agree on the frying pan lid, its not something I would get any real use out of except as a lid but with that pot it gives that little extra height to fit more stuff in.

Im starting to get a bit concerned that a larger pot is going to be too big for me. I do use one of those silly flat silicon cups for a coffee but I was hoping to do away with that and just use one pot for all. So I am trying not to end up with a 'bucket'! Id feel a bit silly drinking my morning coffee out of a huge pot

Thanks Simon, Ill give you a yell if I end up going down that line.

Im now going to explore just using 110g cylinders and see what a system that houses those is going to end up like. I have quite a bit of room to spare in my pack so its not imperative that my pot holds my gas cylinder but it would be nice to keep it all in the one bag.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the input, it is helping me to not make a bad decision and get in more trouble with my wife for 'wasting' money on things I supposedly don't need

[Moondog55]

I have a surplus of old fashioned aluminium billys if you want to try one out for size and ease Postage cost only as it's not quite "new" but you can probably find one closer and cheaper than a 500g prepaid