Which Waterproof Shell?

[Ally]

I'm after a waterproof breathable shell to use for extended bushwalks in Tasmania - mostly along the lines of Overland Track, South Coast Track, so 7-10 days and it could rain the whole time if the weather is bad. I don't do much in the way of off track walking.

My existing shell is a Pallin Goretex XCR that is around 10 years old and weighs nearly 1kg. While it has performed well in the past, it hasn't been used for a while and hasn't been cared for properly/washed in the past so I'm not confident taking it on my next lot of walks. I'd ideally like something a little lighter too.

Any suggestions for jackets that may be suitable? Ideally I'd like a women's cut. Is mid thigh length still the go for Tasmanian conditions, these jackets are getting very difficult to find.

[wayno]

not many brands making them that long.
Mont still does, depends what your budget is though
i'm assuming from the name ally, that you are female.
, save a few hundred grams on what you have.
the lighter 2.5 layer jackets dont last as long as the 3 layer ones

http://www.mont.com.au/women/women-shellwear-rainwear

mountain designs have one too
http://www.mountaindesigns.com/store/wo ... o-15-jkt-w

[Strider]

One Planet make long jackets too, but not in a womens cut AFAIK. I recently bought a Cat and Dog and while I haven't used in anger yet (though the two hours I have worn it was absolutely miserable) I am very happy with the design, build quality and weight (562g size Large). The Torrent is knee length but a fair bit more expensive.

[Ally]

Thanks for the input so far.

Yes I'm female, about 175cm tall. Men's cuts would probably still be ok, but a women's fit would probably be a bit better. As far as I know WE and One Planet only do a men's cut.

Has anyone got any feedback on the Mont Hydronaut Pro? I've read some good reviews but a friend had one and didn't like it at all due to poor breathability.

As for jacket length, I always wear trousers and gaiters when walking, so is a longer jacket necessary, or would hip length like the Arcteryx Theta/Zeta suffice? I always cary waterproof overpants on multi day walks but I guess I only wear them if it's *really* raining or if it looks like a whole day of wet weather is expected.

[wayno]

the real benefit with long raincoats lies in when you are wearing shorts, as long as there is enough length so that it doesnt pop up above a hip belt you should be able to go for shorter length,
then it comes down to your budget, gore tex is quality, get a jacket with pit zips and or vented pockets to keep sweat buildup down, it trumps any brand of membrane for breathability
gore tex, event, neoshell are all established 3 layer quality waterproof membranes.
if you really want lightweight then you'll look for 2.5 layer jackets which arent as durable. pertex, marmot nano, event dvl are a few examples.
when you try on a jacket see how easy it is to move around in, crouch down, reach forward, how well does the hood fit and adjust. the cut of different brands can vary, some brands are more like tents, others are trimmer for athletic figures only, make sure its big enough to fit all the layers you're likely to have on under it.

[north-north-west]

Mont and MD do longer jackets with a women's cut.
I know some people who love the Mont Hydronaut fabric. I've not been majorly impressed, but that's mainly because I've only ever had their pants and the fabric isn't robust enough to withstand the sort of off-track scrub bashing and scrambling to which I subject the gear. For track walking it would be fine, and Mont gear is generally well designed and constructed.

[Strider]

What jacket are you using, NNW?

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[newhue]

Ally my input is a little old, but my wife had Mont Hydronaut for years which has worked well in Qld and Tas. It also has doubled as a pillow once or twice as it's quite a flexible material.
I have had on the other hand a WE gore-tex rain coat. And though the cut was good and came down to my knees. Pulled in around the waste as to be possibly uni sex, and the hood worked fine, I have found the material to be poor value for money. Regardless of how I cared for it, washed it, dried it, I feel it didn't breath or leaked far beyond what all the hype said it should be. It was heavy, and made for a lousy pillow. My wife's Mont would cover her bottom, and the hood worked good enough. I know going off track we would both end up wet from below the hip belt regardless of band or cut.

[north-north-west]

What jacket are you using, NNW?

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I have an ancient (and very heavy) long MacPac Goretex jacket (men's, bought on sale) that's almost stuffed now. Plus a newer lighter long Goretex Pro jacket (can't recall the brand) that was broken in on the Eldons. Also an OR Goretex Pro short jacket and a Rainbird (new - had to buy something as inadvertently went on the last trip without one ).
I prefer long jackets and also prefer Goretex because I know how reliable it is - the breathability is less of a factor for me than durability.

[nq111]

Don't discount making some waterproof shorts and going with a shorter jacket.

Whilst the fabric of the shorts isn't breathable I find they have excellent airflow in use (mine are a little loose fitting and go to the top of the knee). Waterproof shorts are easily made by coating a loose pair of light nylon or polyester shorts with a 100% silicone (e.g. bathroom silicon) thinned with low-odour turps. I coated mine three times with a thin mixture - they are fully waterproof and don't wet out over days of use in the rain. Also nicely windproof and warm in a cold wind.

I like the idea of a longer jacket but with the range so limited in this design sometimes it just makes more sense to go with the flow with a shorter jacket, where the range is much larger, it will be easier to get the cut and other features you want, and you are more likely to get a good price.

[wayno]

some people say their jackets are leaking, dont underestimate how much persperation you build up while walking, which is why i say you need a jacket with physical vents like pit zips or vented pockets,
there are much worse fabrics than gore tex and it depends on which one you get, paclite is light but crap breathability the new Pro is better but nothing is the b al and end all. when your raingear is wet outside, it hardly lets any moisture out without vents. there are a lot of lesser known materials that are little better than plastic bags and barely let any moisture out at all

[Ally]

Does anyone have thoughts on the waterproof zipper found on jackets like the Mont Odyssey?

http://www.mont.com.au/odyssey-jkt-seaport-1

I realise they are like that to reduce weight - would they leak after a day in the rsain, or would this not be significant compared to condensation within the jacket?

[wayno]

says it has a flap underneath it, which can help water getting through run off, ideally theres a drain where the flap is folded over at the end to catch moisture moving to the end of it and encourage it to run down the inside of the fold instead of getting through. persperation is usually a bigger issue.

[RonK]

some people say their jackets are leaking, dont underestimate how much persperation you build up while walking, which is why i say you need a jacket with physical vents like pit zips or vented pockets...

Quite right Wayno. My eVent jacket with pit zips, vented pockets and a back vent is the best I've owned but even so makes me sweat too much to wear unless the temp is less than about 10C.
If I'm gonna get wet anyway there is no point wearing it.

[wayno]

some people say their jackets are leaking, dont underestimate how much persperation you build up while walking, which is why i say you need a jacket with physical vents like pit zips or vented pockets...

Quite right Wayno. My eVent jacket with pit zips, vented pockets and a back vent is the best I've owned but even so makes me sweat too much to wear unless the temp is less than about 10C.
If I'm gonna get wet anyway there is no point wearing it.

yes but varies from person to person as to how hot they will get and how well they'll cope with the rain not wearing a coat, anyone with little body fat will feel the cold a lot more.

[wayno]

actually i have an identical zip on my rainshell. had a foot of rain one day, didnt notice any major problems with water getting through the zip.

[roysta]

Ally, my wife has a Mont Siena.
It's a long cut and is a 3-layer bombproof jacket, weighs about 575g and would be ideal for Tassie.
Mountain Adventure Centre at Jindabyne have them in stock (10 and 12 sizing) for $289.

[newhue]

some people say their jackets are leaking, dont underestimate how much persperation you build up while walking, which is why i say you need a jacket with physical vents like pit zips or vented pockets,
there are much worse fabrics than gore tex and it depends on which one you get, (snip)

yeh I'm still sceptical. $700 jacket by a reputable outdoor manufacturer using Goretex. I'm aware now after the fact of purchase, Gore is designed to work when it's dry and very cold outside, basically designed for space, so it certainly has limitations on earth. But one plods along a Tassie track at 20deg feeling no perspiration. It rains and possibly drops to 10deg, but my back and shoulders slowly get wet. Cuffs are open, hood on but not trimmed in. I must have used this thing maybe less that 10 times in anger. It's basically been rolled up in it's bag for its life snug in the rucksack. Been washed, ironed, and what ever else your meant to do with poor results. Perhaps it's a dud batch of material. I just think be careful. The wife's $265 hydronaught delaminated eventually, but it worked and you can get 3 for the price of 1 high end gore. Even if you changed over every 3 to 4 years I don't believe you'd get 12 good years from a goretex. I wish I was wrong, but it's been my/our experience.
Unfortunately trying to decipher the BS from the truth is very hard, all manufacturers say theirs is the best, and their is regularly a "new and best material ". It's just takes time to see if that's the case.

[wayno]

yeah thing is insede a raincoat your sweat starts out turning into vapour for a while till it recondenses back as it cant get out fast enough and you get steadily saturated, it takes a lot of pressure for water to get in from the outside, sitting on weat weather gear, if it gets under straps, and inside your thighs if they rub together... but most of the water will be sweat.

[stry]

But one plods along a Tassie track at 20deg feeling no perspiration. It rains and possibly drops to 10deg, but my back and shoulders slowly get wet. Cuffs are open, hood on but not trimmed in.

Back and shoulders slowly getting wet is exactly what has happened to me with a couple of jackets, one tired, one not, neither Goretex. It was leaking fabric every time.

Wasn't it the case that switching to more environmentally friendly DWR treatments diminished the effectiveness of some modern fabrics, for a time at least ?

[Orion]

Back and shoulders slowly getting wet is exactly what has happened to me with a couple of jackets, one tired, one not, neither Goretex. It was leaking fabric every time.

How did you determine that it was due to leakage as opposed to condensing perspiration?
Wayno is right about condensation. And it's often hard to tell if it's really a leak or your own moisture.

But not always. If there's a flow of ice cold water when you're standing still it's very likely a leak.
When moving, it's harder tot tell the difference. I often don't know how to.

To test suspect jackets for leakage I've put them in a cold shower with a towel inside the jacket to see if it gets wet. The towels have never gotten wet.

It's weird though. I had a pair of goretex boots that I *knew* leaked. But when I tested them by immersing them in a tub of water they didn't leak. Was I wrong? No way, the pattern of wetting wasn't consistent with perspiration: one boot only, starting in a distinct spot every time. It must have required bending the boot or something. The retail shop guy told me it was probably condensation. What could I say?

So I ask -- how do you know?

[stry]

Back and shoulders slowly getting wet is exactly what has happened to me with a couple of jackets, one tired, one not, neither Goretex. It was leaking fabric every time.

How did you determine that it was due to leakage as opposed to condensing perspiration?
Wayno is right about condensation. And it's often hard to tell if it's really a leak or your own moisture.

So I ask -- how do you know?

No unusual humidity or moisture inside. No clammy feeling. I've experienced quite a lot of condensation. It doesn't make itself obvious only around the shoulders.

Reproofed one and the problem was fixed. The other was an early WPB cheapo alternative to Goretex - gave it away.

[Ally]

This has given me heaps to think about. If I were to go with pit zips there are two that stand out from online research - not living in a capital city we don't have any independent retailers here so first cut of looming has to be online. The mont odyssey:

http://www.mont.com.au/odyssey-jkt-seaport-atoll-1

And the arcteryx zeta:

http://www.arcteryx.com/product.aspx?la ... R-Jacket-W

The arcteryx being shorter - it seems that they consider "thigh length" to mean coming to the very top of the thighs

Is there anything about either of these that stands out as being good/bad? Has anyone been able to compare goretex like in the arcteryx with hydronaut pro?

[Moondog55]

I know it's for Tassie but would a poncho work for you?
Otherwise my personal feeling is that if you are wearing and using synthetic clothing that keeping the wind off is possibly far more important than keeping the water out so I haven't bought a new jacket in years and if I was buying new I'd probably just buy one of the cheap Dry Japara jackets as they are still cut long if I can find one
WW still make long line jackets
https://wildernesswear.com.au/womens-ra ... -mens-1850

https://wildernesswear.com.au/clearance ... ned-japara

And if you wanted a womens Large in a decent WPB that is more breathable and less water proof I have a Large for sale that is more like a mens small and I am instructed to stop buying clothing for Cecile

[wayno]

The Arcteryx lets out a high amount of sweat, the membrane is one of the best ones on the market for letting sweat out, , i doubt the hydronaut will let out as much.

ponchos are no good in strong wind, you dont want one when its cold and windy

[Moondog55]

[quote="wayno"
ponchos are no good in strong wind, you dont want one when its cold and windy[/quote]

True, but they do ventilate well when it isn't windy and a string around the tummy can help a lot with that, it isn't what i would advise as only shell garment either but they do have their uses

[wayno]

the arteryx jacket is made of much lighter weight material

[slparker]

some people say their jackets are leaking, dont underestimate how much persperation you build up while walking, which is why i say you need a jacket with physical vents like pit zips or vented pockets,
there are much worse fabrics than gore tex and it depends on which one you get, paclite is light but crap breathability the new Pro is better but nothing is the b al and end all. when your raingear is wet outside, it hardly lets any moisture out without vents. there are a lot of lesser known materials that are little better than plastic bags and barely let any moisture out at all

What this means to me is don't wear a jacket unless it's pissing down.And if you do it doesn't matter what it's made from so long as it's waterproof with a bunch of ventilation built in. Once the jacket has water on the surface the humidity of the outside of the jacket exceeds the inside and water can't move for the inside.
Surely the difference in breath ability of , say, goretex pro is only a factor in cold dry conditions - like in mountaineering, not when hunched under a pack in 10 degrees on a wet day of a 3 day walk when the dwr has wetted out?
My experience in waterproof jackets is limited to waxed Japara, dry Japara, old fashioned goretex, gore paclite, Venetia and pertex AP. they all get clammy when it's wet, but the last three are lighter and come in nicer colours.

[wayno]

one of the benefits of raincoats is actually the insulation value in keeping cold water from getting into your clothing and helping retain trapped heat inside.
breathability can also be a factor in intermitent rain, more breathable membranes stand to allow more moisture to get out if the jacket gets to dry out on the outside.. gore tex certainly isnt a perfect answer in the rain and it isnt the b all and end all of raingear.

[aloftas]

So, I have a Macpac Sonic jacket which I love. It cuts out the wind and was all I had to put on once I had climbed Marions Lookout.
It is Pertex Quantum. My question is how waterproof is it?
I have other Goretex coats, but I would also take a packlite jacket and leave the goretex for "a rainy day" later in the trip, if I was say going to do anything over 3 days. Sorry to butt in on your thread, but it is a very interesting topic.
Cheers