Abels: The List of Abelists

[Osik]

Was chatting with Maureen yesterday during the west coast search, she may have even done a couple more a she needed to check the names and locations of a couple of peaks. Particularly impressive as she'd never heard of the Abels!

[CasualNerd]

For those seeking an alphabetical list of the Abels, I have posted one in my blog. ....

Is this the most current list of Abels ? I have the books but I know a few were added. I also had a list from elsewhere online but there are obvious differences.

Since discovering this list I've thought about it way too much !

[naturelover]

The list of Abels in my blog is the complete list of the 158 Abels in Tasmania - mountains over 1100 ms with a 150m drop off all around. (www.natureloverswalks. The Abels: Alphabetical List ).

You have referred to the list of Abelists, who are the people who have completed, or near completed, the list of 158 peaks called Abels. (www.natureloverswalks.blogspot.com Abels: The List of top Abelists) This list is also as up to date as it can be, given that I am reliant on people telling me when numbers change. i am not the KGB with my own set of spies. Most people are really good about telling me when their count has changed, or informing me when they should be on the list.

Hope that helps

[CasualNerd]

The list of Abels in my blog is the complete list of the 158 Abels in Tasmania - mountains over 1100 ms with a 150m drop off all around. (http://www.natureloverswalks. The Abels: Alphabetical List ).

You have referred to the list of Abelists, who are the people who have completed, or near completed, the list of 158 peaks called Abels. (http://www.natureloverswalks.blogspot.com Abels: The List of top Abelists) This list is also as up to date as it can be, given that I am reliant on people telling me when numbers change. i am not the KGB with my own set of spies. Most people are really good about telling me when their count has changed, or informing me when they should be on the list.

Hope that helps

I'm definitely reading the list of Abels, http://natureloverswalks.blogspot.com.a ... -list.html just trying to make sure I'm working off the most up to date list !

[naturelover]

As an Abel is a mountain over 1100 ms high with 150 ms all around, the number is unlikely to change unless refined gps readings, gross erosion or mountain gluttony take place - or unless someone changes the rules about the definition, but meanwhile, I think the list should be pretty stable for a while.

[icefest]

As an Abel is a mountain over 1100 ms high with 150 ms all around, the number is unlikely to change unless refined gps readings, gross erosion or mountain gluttony take place - or unless someone changes the rules about the definition, but meanwhile, I think the list should be pretty stable for a while.

c.f tramontane

[doogs]

As an Abel is a mountain over 1100 ms high with 150 ms all around, the number is unlikely to change unless refined gps readings, gross erosion or mountain gluttony take place - or unless someone changes the rules about the definition, but meanwhile, I think the list should be pretty stable for a while.

c.f tramontane

I suspect there are more Abels to be discovered, and occasionally these crop up in conversation whilst walking. However, until someone takes the time to prove their suspected Abels, I guess the list will remain the same.

[north-north-west]

There are a surprising number of peaks that are very close. Hesperus, for instance, at 1099m, is officially only one metre short of Abel status - though I've yet to see a GPS reading that didn't put its altitude somewhat higher.

Tramontane and Nescient are the two most recent additions to the list and both were ratified early enough to be included in Vol II, which was published in 2011.

[naturelover]

There is a story of a group of villagers in Wales who were angry that their "mountain" was being reduced in status by London-based bureaucrats because it was 1 metre (or was it 2?) shy of the qualification criterion set up by the important statistic makers, so they went out with wheelbarrows to amend the fact. Perhaps someone who cares about the lack of nobility of Hesperus could do the same - although my peak baggers' list has it at 1097. Collins Cap, in the same list as 1098ms, could also do with just a tiny bit of help from its friends with wheelbarrows.

[north-north-west]

The spreadsheets put Hesperus at 1098, my map has 1099, and my GPS said 1103. Makes life a little complicated sometimes.

[biggbird]

The spreadsheets put Hesperus at 1098, my map has 1099, and my GPS said 1103. Makes life a little complicated sometimes.

Just make a bigger cairn and put all the suspicions to rest.

[Azza]

A lot more complicated

GPS'es are more accurate in the horizontal plane.
Vertical accuracy is not so good. No one seems to want to quote a figure, but its probably more like ~5-10m
So when the GPS says 5m accuracy it means horizontally.

But it all depends on what projection system you are measure in..
This is complicated stuff.. A GPS receiver measures height difference to how the height is determined on our maps.
http://www.icsm.gov.au/mapping/datums2.html

To quote the page:
"A GPS receiver will generally give a latitude, longitude (or x and y position) and height. This height is usually the height above (or below) the Ellipsoid/Spheroid. Therefore GPS heights are not given in relation to the national height datum, and must be used with caution. "

Basically your map and your GPS are taking difference reference points when quoting altitude.
The maps are calculated based off an average sea level / surveyor trig points, the GPS is based off an imaginary spheroid trying to approximate sea level.

[doogs]

There is a story of a group of villagers in Wales who were angry that their "mountain" was being reduced in status by London-based bureaucrats because it was 1 metre (or was it 2?) shy of the qualification criterion set up by the important statistic makers, so they went out with wheelbarrows to amend the fact. Perhaps someone who cares about the lack of nobility of Hesperus could do the same - although my peak baggers' list has it at 1097. Collins Cap, in the same list as 1098ms, could also do with just a tiny bit of help from its friends with wheelbarrows.

This may be the story, in Scotland, about a peak not being named as a Munro (the inspiration for the Abels), I can't remember the name of the mountain but my father and I climbed it when I was quite young, and I can recall the story as we walked up the mountain and then seeing the detritus on the summit. *There may also be something similar in Wales too.
As for the potential new Abels, I am thinking more of the drop surrounding the mountains rather than the actual height. There are many peaks that are high enough but the surrounding drop is not sufficient. I think this is even more tricky to prove than the height, but believe there may be Abels that will be proven in the future. Perhaps, Mount Spurling or the Northern peak of The Cheyne Range spring to mind..

[naturelover]

Azza, what you say is very interesting re calculations. If it's based on sea level, then, as the sea level rises due to the melting of ice, would it not be the case that some Abels drop their height value and get deleted from the list (if we all agree that the cut-off is 1100).
I find Geryon North an interesting case, as it is only a very fine technicality that prevents it from being an Abel. If the bushwalking community decided on a different drop-off amount, then it would gain Abel status. 150ms is, after all, not determined by divine decree but rather by humans devising a set of rules that please, and agreeing together to use that definition.

[Geevesy]

Azza is indeed right about the GPS reading to the ellipsoid/spheroid. Topographic maps refer to Australian Height Datum which is based off mean sea level measured over two years 1966-68. Also it was only measured at certain points around Australia's coastline so there is variability there.

Some GPS's have what is called a "geoid" model which applies a shift to put the GPS on this Australian Height Datum - so theoretically it will be better, but at this stage the accuracy of consumer GPS receivers doesn't really warrant the inclusion.

Regardless, the mountains in Tasmania were all coordinated using triangulation from other high points (Mr Sprent did a large chunk of the state, hence Mt Sprent!). This method is significantly better than any non surveying GPS technique.

[naturelover]

For those interested in this topic, not only can you find a list of Abelists in my blogsite (which is being updated every time info changes and I am notified), but it is in B&W - with accompanying article - in WILD magazine, number 153, out now and purchasable from some equipment shops like Paddy Pallins, as well as some newsstands.

[bushwalker zane]

GAH! I need to get a copy of that Wild mag.

I'm heading off for an Abel tomorrow - Parson and Clerk.

[naturelover]

Don' tell me Paddy's STILL hasn't got it in!!! The newsagent across the road from the Princess Theatre has them, so try there.
Have fun on Parson and Clerk. I hope you have had a look at our route - way, way nicer than the one in 'the book'.

[north-north-west]

Newsagent on Harrington St is where I got mine. Though I think that was the last copy on display . . .

[bushwalker zane]

Don' tell me Paddy's STILL hasn't got it in!!! The newsagent across the road from the Princess Theatre has them, so try there.
Have fun on Parson and Clerk. I hope you have had a look at our route - way, way nicer than the one in 'the book'.

I hardly work there anymore. I believe they have it in though, finally! P&C was pretty good. We had a nice span of good weather, and the view was interesting