Bushwalkers Found By Helicopter in Western Arthurs

[Son of a Beach]

...but they're perfectly fine and continuing their walk out. No beacon was set off, it seems. They were simply reported overdue.

Story here: http://www.examiner.com.au/news/local/n ... 23180.aspx

Were any members here walking the Western Arthurs this week?

[Michael_Kingston]

They set themselves a couple of decent days - from the carpark to Oberon in a day and then back the next day. I am surprised that the helicopter came out quite so quickly though - they were only due back yesterday night and the chopper was out first thing today. Things must have changed. When I was stuck at the Gordon a number of years ago I was due back on the Tuesday, but did not get out until mid afternoon on the Thursday (and we got to the Maydena police station around 3pm to say we were out). We were reported as overdue at 10pm on the Wednesday evening. On getting out we were told the chopper was going to depart at 4pm Thursday (nearly 48 hours overdue) to look for us.

And a woman was lifted from the Frenchmans Cap track a couple of days ago - leg injury of some sort.

[wander]

It seems a bit of an overly quick response? (No I do not know all the facts and this observation could be complete cobblers and a result).

I would like to report the toilets in the Western Arthurs and at Junction Creek are a month over due. I was expecting them to be at the Scotts Peak mainteance base a month ago. Can someone call out the chopper to look for m them and bring them in?

[vorn]

just got back from the western arthurs on the 11th
toilets had not been emptied and were all very full (literally overflowing at high moor and haven lake
so take a spade if your heading in!

[ILUVSWTAS]

It was like that in early November. It was quite disgusting. There is a thread on here discussing the matter, flying toilets I believe it was called. One of the rangers on this site suggested it was hard to get hold of a chopper at the time they wanted due to fires and other emergencies. I'd say with the several fires still burning across the state they would be prioritising the fires first.
I was quite surprised after our recent trip through the Eastern Arthurs there was only one toilet along that particular range!!

[Steve]

Were any members here walking the Western Arthurs this week?

Indeed, but wasn't me. Wouldn't have passed them either, I was down the other end.

[volcboy]

I was there in January, but it wasn't me or my party - we got a string of bad weather and ran out of time for the traverse so retraced.

I was astounded by the lack of preparation of some groups we passed (no maps, no compasses, no PLB, limited wet weather gear etc.) and thought that some of them were rescues waiting to happen.

[stu]

volcboy - it is very disturbing at how popular this traverse is becomming with those that are totally under-prepared &/or under-experienced.
Just going on posts on this forum it seems many groups go from their first walk along the overland track to this much more serious walk.
Warranted, it is pretty well tracked, but the terrain could not be compared to anything on the OL track.

Again, people need to build up on their experiences, at least a couple of intermediate shorter routes would have people much more prepared for the challenge (eg. Anne Circuit, Frenchmans Cap or even the more benign South Coast Track).
Perhaps the over publicity of such walks in guides such as Chapmans are leading people out of their depth a little?

[JamesMc]

Are the Western Arthurs REALLY becoming more popular than they used to be? I would have thought that with the general decline in bushwalking numbers they would have been loosing popularity.

My first ever walk in Tasmania was Arthur Plains / Federation Peak / Western Arthurs. It was a great introduction to walking on the island.

JamesMc

[ILUVSWTAS]

Definately becoming MUCH more popular!
Not so long ago there wasnt much of a track through there aparantly. Now theres a very good track all the way through.

[Azza]

The track as far as Oberon is well maintained and defined, I think it lull's people into a false sense of what the rest of the range is like.
Over the years I've seen a number of parties at Oberon under prepared about to blindly continue onto the next section of the range.

I remember talking to one guy by himself at Oberon - staring at a map and looking up at Pegasus trying to decide whether to continue.
He asked me what it was like... - I said have you got a rope? .. nope.. Any climbing experience.. nope.
How did you find the walk in? Pretty hard..
yea. You probably shouldn't continue..

I think that people tend to jump from the Overland straight to the Arthurs and skip all the awesome walks in between.
Limited time and opportunity.. I guess people want to do the "top walk"..

LIke myself, I jumped straight from a mountaineering course and went out and climbing Mt Aspiring in NZ.
Probably should had done a few inbetween climbs.. but stubborness, stupidity, limited time and wanting to bag a big mountain -
we jumped in the deep end and went for it.

[johnw]

...with the general decline in bushwalking numbers...

Really? Not related to the WA's, and probably a separate topic, but my perception is quite the opposite (and may be location dependent to some extent). I'm talking about both Tassie and mainland locations. Has there been any recent studies on this?

[ILUVSWTAS]

Numbers in the HWC have increased recently apparantly

[wander]

Judging by sales of bushwalking gear I'd have to say bushwalking is not in any decline at all.

How many new magazines have started in the last 10 years with bushwalking as 1 of their topics?

And I'd echo the experience of finding folks a little stretched and possibly under prepared in the Western Arthurs and elsewhere.

How about doing Port Davey and south Coast Tracks solo in lastic sided boots and denium jeans?

[tasadam]

A friend recently returned from Lake Cygnus in WA. He told me there was a note on the pod that explained Parks couldn't afford to fly the pods out due to funding cuts. The note was hand written, but quite lengthy. So whether it is someone writing or an actual Parks letter, is unclear.
A bit bad that they're full / overflowing though.

[wander]

Now here is an interesting question. And I pose it as a question for discussion in lieu of just stirring.

We have funding to stooge out in a chopper to check how many people we have to rescue by chopper if a fire (which was burning) gets too close. So we not even saving them yet, just preparing to prevent them from being killed.

But we do not have funding to chopper out the pods for empty and return to prevent people being killed by water poisoned by toilet waste?

Is it not the same issue? Both are about saving lives? Or is it different because people go home sick and death is only a remote possibility and is remote compared to the public witnessing charred bodies being flown out after a fire has passed.

Or have I missed something here?

Or is the funding to save people from fires separate from parks activities?

[ILUVSWTAS]

Wow! Thats really really sad! An all time low.
So are they just going to leave the pods in there full of waste to stink the range out? How very very sad! If this is true My opinion of parks is going to be very very lowered im afraid! and I KNOW they dont control the funding they get, but surely this is a fairly important project......

[tasadam]

Again, not sure whether it is a funding issue or not. Maybe we should ask the Parks office responsible for the WA. Is that Mt Field? I believe the ranger there is a member of this forum.

[tastrax]

Two slightly different issues - fires get priority for helicopters. The haul out of the pods takes quite a bit of organisation as they need, minimal fires (so they can get a chopper), good weather (the hardest part generally) the chopper, the pump truck and quite a few staff. They have tried on at least two occasions to get the loos out and (judging by radio traffic today) they have a chopper up that way today.

Also remember that everything needs to be booked well in advance - sometimes the stars just dont align to get things done.

[wander]

Would it help if you had 2 sets of pods so the chopperbit is just change the full for empty and leave the fulls at the Scott's Peak service yard shed thingy to be delat with in due course?

How much does a pod cost?

[ILUVSWTAS]

So it's just a matter of other issues being higher priority?? Meaning it will eventually get done?? Thank commonsense for that!!!! Still, the loo's were full in early November, so I'd imagine there is a fair bit of Poo around the campsites by now.....

[tasadam]

so I'd imagine there is a fair bit of Poo around the campsites by now.....

That is indeed the concern. I've never yet had the dreaded tummy bug and certainly don't want it. My friends who were recently there also told me they saw some walkers carrying a poo tube. Good on them!

[ILUVSWTAS]

That is indeed very very thoughtful of them!! I cant say i'd do that myself

I do however always try to go as far from camp areas as I can, and dig a decent hole no matter how hard the ground is, or how many roots I have to bust through.

[Beeper]

The apparent increase in numbers to the WAR (I have no stats to verify one way or the other) may be directly related to the trackwork that has been undertaken over recent years. Track work has been performed to alleviate erosion issues and to protect the environment, raised campsite platforms and toilets help with social walking/damage around stopover sites. However with improved facilities can come increased visitation as the walk becomes a little more easier and comfortable. Its a classic incrementatal scenario. There has been anecdotal evidence that protecting the environment in this way with the excellent trackwork, also encourages fringe people to visit such places ie those with not enough experience. The only effective way to limit environmental damage and cap infrastructure works is to limit numbers, such as on the Overland Track, but thats another issue.

[Nuts]

Perhaps, though i'd imagine that the flood of glossy photo's and outlets for neatly packaged accounts (and experiences....) has just as much to do with it!

Trackwork from remote areas working back has always been a good idea though obviously more expensive and not always the most politically desirable? Anyhow... once again off the topic i guess...

[geoskid]

Anyhow... once again off the topic i guess...

Would'nt worry about that Nuts - went off track in the third post. Mind you what else could be said about the original post except "was'nt me, and glad whoever it was is OK".
The toilet situation and how it came about needs addressing. I don't see it as PWS fault as long as their heirarchy makes it plain to the Govt that there is a problem.
If the things have been overflowing since early Nov. - then the system isn't working. If it can take that long to "align the stars" to get them empty then bigger recepticles are needed or the process to empty them needs to start earlier and if some get taken out before they are full - so be it.
When humans start tinkering and decide to to manage wilderness (Make it a National Park and inadvertently attractmore people) there forever comes the responsibility to provide the appropriate funds to manage it properly. Not all of the blame can be laid at the guide book publishers.
In the end it is our fault - the public.

[tastrax]

The pods are about $1,000 each if I remember correctly and they do have extra units available at most field centres that use them. You need quite a few extras on the pump out day as it takes a while to pump out a unit, clean it and then make it ready to go back out in the field - 3 - 4 at the pump site is usually enough depending on how long the return flights take. They are all certified plumbing products and really need to be bomb proof.

The units, when they were designed, had a capacity of 450 litres which was about the total lifting capacity of the helicopters (at the time). With upgraded helicopters we could get a new mould made for higher volumes, however the units also go under some toilet buildings like Wild Dog Creek. Some sites do have multiple pods - again its a matter of timing the fill rates to the extraction timing. Also you attempt to make sure that the pods are pretty full before extraction (due to the high cost of choppers etc).

[geoskid]

Yeah, I do realize seeing the problem is the easy part - finding a solution is always the hardest. It must be terribly frustrating for you guys knowing these pods are sitting there overflowing. If the main problem is getting a Helicopter in a tight timeframe, I suppose a simple, clever engineering solution has been looked at whereby users can close off a full pod and slide an empty one under? Fraught with risks there I would imagine.
If toilets were modified to fit larger pods, is that something that qualified volunteers do(or could do)? Mind you there is still the same problem of timing the changeover if one pod is used, no matter what it's volume.
I would have thought Parks could have their own Helicopter and pilot for this (and other tasks to keep it busy).
There has got to be a solution to overflowing pods.
Oh for a perfect world.

[volcboy]

I wouldn't worry about the WA being someone's first walk in Tasmania, but I would worry if it was their first walk overall. From my experience (briefer than I would have liked), the track was easy to follow although obviously not maintained for a number of years. The track on the ridge from the top of moraine A to Lake Oberon was brilliant considering the isolation - much better than what I've experienced on the Alpine Walking Trail in Victoria/NSW. However, even an obvious track can be easily lost by a tired and inexperienced walker in driving mist/rain and cold temperatures when they don't have the right equipment or experience.

As far as helicopters go, I've read many opinions on this forum both for and against. My personal opinion is that I'd rather some of my taxes went on helicopters rescuing people getting out and experiencing the wilderness than cranes lifting morbidly obese people out of their houses to take them to hospital for lap-band surgery. BTW, that last sentence was deliberately provocative, so I apologies for any offence caused!

[tastrax]

Yeah, I do realize seeing the problem is the easy part - finding a solution is always the hardest. It must be terribly frustrating for you guys knowing these pods are sitting there overflowing. If the main problem is getting a Helicopter in a tight timeframe, I suppose a simple, clever engineering solution has been looked at whereby users can close off a full pod and slide an empty one under? Fraught with risks there I would imagine.
If toilets were modified to fit larger pods, is that something that qualified volunteers do(or could do)? Mind you there is still the same problem of timing the changeover if one pod is used, no matter what it's volume.
I would have thought Parks could have their own Helicopter and pilot for this (and other tasks to keep it busy).
There has got to be a solution to overflowing pods.
Oh for a perfect world.

Its always a juggling act - I think originally the pods were emptied every 18 months to 2 years but now they need annual trips. More frequent trips are probably not the best solutions (weather conditions etc) so maybe now is the time for multiple pods in some of these locations and then try and stretch out the collection period.

The mechanism under the buildings is quite easy for folk to handle as long as they get there in time before the "pool pile" starts accumulating up the drop chute! Then its a horrid job! Personally its not a job I would offer to volunteers.

Wishful thinking with the chopper - they are very expensive to purchase and maintain so I think we will leave that to the private sector.