Cost effective weight reduction suggestions - pack and shelt

[Snafuspyramid]

Greetings wise ones,

I am dusting off my gear after a hiatus of a few years and reconsidering it's weight. Currently my sleeping system is:

- Tent - Exped Venus II (just over 3kg including repair kit and 2 spare pegs)
- Bag - Western Mountaineering Apache (-9c) (just over 1kg with silk liner included)
- Pad - Exped Downmat (860g).

My pack is a One Planet Mungo, so again on the bomb proof end of the spectrum (2.6kg). So taking into account the fact the tent weight is shared with another walker, I'm still carrying over 6kg before kitchen, clothing food etc.

What's a cost efficient way to reduce weight for summer and shoulder season conditions without breaking the bank? Tents cost a lot. The mat I'm very attached to, since I'm a side sleeper, 6'4 and heavy so never managed a good sleep on a thinner one - but the insulation is overkill.

I'm thinking of perhaps moving to a half bag to leverage the insulation value of the mat, which should save about half a kilo (although not sure that works for side sleeping). Does anyone have other suggestions for weight reduction? Just looking to make incremental changes. Doesn't need to be ultralight.

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[crollsurf]

Go for a hike and when you return, throw out everything you didn't use.
Get some scales ($20 on ebay) and weigh everything you did use and enter it into a spreadsheet
Look at all the new gear out there and work out what you want to buy.
Wait 1 week in case you change your mind.
Add the price and weight of the new stuff in columns next to the old stuff. Divide the cost by the weigh saving (grams) to get cost/gram. Buy whatever has the lowest cost/gram until you run out of money.
Repeat

[Walk_fat boy_walk]

I'd keep the WM bag. Depending on where you are located could maybe switch to a tarp or try to get hold of an xmid? Hard to suggest "cost effective" without knowing your budget... the OP pack is great but heavy...reasonably cheap and lightweight alternative might be an osprey exos? Can get much lighter large mats without the insulation that come in at half the weight, but none are particularly cheap and if you are as attached to your current one as you say then not sure why you'd want to replace it?

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[Snafuspyramid]

I'd keep the WM bag. Depending on where you are located could maybe switch to a tarp or try to get hold of an xmid? Hard to suggest "cost effective" without knowing your budget... the OP pack is great but heavy...reasonably cheap and lightweight alternative might be an osprey exos? Can get much lighter large mats without the insulation that come in at half the weight, but none are particularly cheap and if you are as attached to your current one as you say then not sure why you'd want to replace it?

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I don't mind spending good money on good gear, but in my main activity (cycling) there are diminishing marginal returns for weight reduction. Maybe for discussion purposes the question could be - what might $500 get me?

What mat are you referring to?

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[Moondog55]

In total weight reduction terms I don't think $500- would get you very much.
Certainly the WM Apache is a damned good bag and much lighter than my current -8C bag system; ditto the Exped mat

[Warin]

Go for a hike and when you return, throw out everything you didn't use.
Get some scales ($20 on ebay) and weigh everything you did use and enter it into a spreadsheet
Look at all the new gear out there and work out what you want to buy.
Wait 1 week in case you change your mind.
Add the price and weight of the new stuff in columns next to the old stuff. Divide the cost by the weigh saving (grams) to get cost/gram. Buy whatever has the lowest cost/gram until you run out of money.
Repeat

^^^ This.
Generally if I'm not geting at least 1 gram reduction for every $ then if is not worth it, unless there is some other factor like simplicity.

[ChrisJHC]

Think about how you can multi-purpose items.
For example, you say that you carry a tent repair kit and spare pegs.
Maybe carry some duct tape and a small sewing kit that can be used to repair a wide range of things rather than a specific repair kit for each item.
Similarly, if you break or bend a peg beyond usability, you can McGyver something pretty easily.

With my basic cooking requirements (and lack of competence) I do all my cooking in one titanium mug. It also doubles as my coffee cup. No need for me to carry a separate pot or billy plus bowl / mug / etc

I haven’t gone to the extent of one person I came across who broke off sticks from nearby trees to use as chopsticks rather than carrying a spoon!

[Hiking Exped]

It has been said by others I think, but don’t just focus on the big items. I have been doing the same recently to save my knees. I have always in the past done things the bomb proof way. Saved about 5kg last few months on things like pack, headlamp, cooking gear, waterproofs, med and survival kit refinements, admin kit, batteries, food types, water purification, water bottle types, the list goes on and on. It can become obsessive though

[Son of a Beach]

Go for a hike and when you return, throw out everything you didn't use.
Get some scales ($20 on ebay) and weigh everything you did use and enter it into a spreadsheet
Look at all the new gear out there and work out what you want to buy.
Wait 1 week in case you change your mind.
Add the price and weight of the new stuff in columns next to the old stuff. Divide the cost by the weigh saving (grams) to get cost/gram. Buy whatever has the lowest cost/gram until you run out of money.
Repeat

This is mostly good and logical advice.

But I wouldn't throw out everything that wasn't used. For me personally, it is worth keeping the rain coat, first aid kit, PLB, down jacket, beanie, yabbie straw and compass, for example. These are some of the items that I carry but sometimes do not use (some of them I never use). Everyone will have different ideas on what is worth keeping, out of their own list of items that they don't use on every (or any) trip.

Sorry to be pedantic, but that's just who I am.

[Petew]

I'd suggest trying out an Osprey exos pack. If it works for you thats more than a kilo saved right there! Can be found for reasonable prices second hand.

If you can use a tarp there are huge weight savings there too or perhaps a second hand tarptent is a good option?

[FionaShedden]

I have just finished a similar exercise with gear that would have been close to 20 years old and heavy duty. It has made a big difference to my hiking pleasure. However I think I spent closer to $1350 - quite a bit more than the $500 you are thinking of. I did however do this over 18 months or more, piece by piece so it didn't seem quite as much as it does when I add it all up!

I bought a never before used, but second hand xmid2 from this site at $400 - at just over 1kg. Used my existing walking poles, so no cost for them and I carry them anyway. My 4 season 2p tent was close to 3kg so that was a 2kg saving alone. I LOVE this X-Mid tent and have no bad words for it. I don't like (and find it impossible to fall asleep) under just a tarp so this was a great option for me. I had first tried a 1P Blackwolf mantis but it was just so small and squishy and weighed more than this!

Next up was a second hand (but again seldom used) down quilt (Undercling Mike -8 degree version for $350 - again bought on this site). My old 4season sleeping bag was heavy at 1.6kg and new quilt only 739g so another ~900g lost there. I am very happy with this although think I'll still need the old bag for mid-winter cold nights as I hate to be cold at all!

My pack I bought brand new as I needed a perfect fit and I wanted to try it before I purchased. I went with a exped lightning 60L (1.15kg at $300) as my local bushcraft store stocked them. Old pack was almost 3kgs so another 2kg's saved. I love the pack itself although a downside for me is the lack of an easily accesible pocket on the top to store all the little stuff i want easy access to. Have been thinking of making, buying something I can attach to the top to resolve this. I had used a 55L Blackwolf B-Lite, but my son ended up snaffling that. I still think they are also a great pack with their own advantages, but a bit less room than the xped.

I upgraded my Pad from an old 3/4 self inflating mat ( ~600g) to a Thermarest NeoAir XLite small (~230g) which was another $250 but this was actually bought because the old pad was so uncomfortable I couldn't get a good night sleep on it. It did though save me another 400g.

Finally I upgraded my cooker from an old trangia kit (~1kg) to a 360 furno set (about 500g including gas) at a cost of $50 - relatively happy with this, but for my more relaxed hikes with hubby I think we'll continue to take the trangia pots with the furno burner as the ones that came with the furno are just a bit too small for some of our dinners.

I have used this kit together so far for about four hikes and it has made a massive difference. My poor old body just can't handle the weight anymore and now I find I'm getting out way more often and with way less pain. It was worth every cent!

[icefest]

Do you have access to a sewing machine and can you sew? Then just make your own flat rectangular tarp, and use it with the pegs you already have from your existing tent. It'll weigh ~400g and be enough for most summer walks.

Next step, stove.
Once more, make your own soda-can stove (AKA coke/pepsi stove).
I made one like this but without the insulation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg91VsButWE

Alcohol stoves are usually lighter for overnight hikes.

[johnrs]

Hi there Snafu
Here is a link to reviews of some light and cheap China clones.
http://frugalhiker.blogspot.com/
Best wishes
John

[Snafuspyramid]

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. I'm fortunate enough to be in a position to spend good money on good gear where that makes sense, so $500 isnt a hard number- but like cycling (my main hobby) there are diminishing marginal returns for weight savings, so I suppose I'm looking for "low hanging fruit" here.

I'll give the pack a look.

For context, I'm essentially adapting my gear from bike touring. So I have a good bit of experience camping but not much hiking (besides a lot of day walks over the years), and there's a focus on indestructibility with my gear over weight. I got the pack second hand for peanuts a few years ago.

I've already let go of some of the luxuries that are easier to justify when you have wheels to carry them, like a ground sheet, sink, and Aeropress (still debating the last one with myself). Camp shoes have been replaced by thongs. My current stove is an 87 gram Windmaster, I don't care for alcohol stoves. I share a single Sea to Summit Alpha pot, as well as a plate and mug with my partner.

I don't carry any warm clothing beside a beanie, windbreaker (110g) and a single very warm down item - either an old Sundowner vest (470g) or jacket (660g) depending on the season. I run very hot when moving but sleep as cold as the dead, so this system has worked ok for me in the past without a fleece layer.

I don't have any rain gear, besides a silnylon umbrella (225g) and an emergency plastic poncho. I have some horribly expensive hard shells for cycling and they work ok on a bike, but I'm a bit sceptical they'd be worth their weight hiking.



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[Al M]

There’s plenty of websites that can help list and calculate what you are carrying like https://lighterpack.com/r/0c3ku4?fbclid ... dR9eJ1NsXE

Aim for light weight category base weight (pack, tent, sleep system, mattress, cooking etc not including food water and fuel) of around 6-7kg. To do this generally item weights should be no more than say <1.2kg pack, <800-1200g tent, 400-1000g sleeping bag (-9 C bag is too warm for summer and spring so get two sleeping bags, lighter summer bag), 400-600g mattress etc.

Keep an eye out in Gumtree and this site for good deals. I got and have seen items like Nemo or Big Agnes 800-1200g tents for $200, Sea to Summit down fill 8C rated 380g sleep bag for $100, Thermarest matts for $50-200 (closed cell or thicker versions), can achieve the $500 budget.

[Gadgetgeek]

I think that overall you are on the right track. I think the main thing is to let experience guide you and make changes as the opportunity arises. Backpack and sleeping bag are the two easy ones there, as they will not necessarily be duplicates. I also sleep very cold, so I'm constantly carrying more sleeping gear than is otherwise the norm, also walking in southeast Queensland where the humidity is constantly in the high numbers and a slight breeze can have a chill in it that really challenges the ratings of insulation. Once you plan for that, its pretty easy to try different things. I have found the quilt/half bag to be a viable option in many cases, since compressed insulation really doesn't offer much.
The tent is going to be tougher given your height and use, and a well-fitting tent does add a level of comfort all around. But again, here is a good place to try and turn over tents to see what works for you.
As for coffee, I've done turkish, cowboy, as well as the GSI filter cone and cold-brew while walking. So lots of options. Love my aeropress, but it's for basecamp.

[Snafuspyramid]

I'm leaning towards trying out a tarp and bivy for the warmer seasons, which would save at least 2kg for sub $500, at least when I'm not sharing equipment.

I could also save another 1kg on the pack and mat at the cost of some durability and insulation I don't really need, although that will cost more.

Are there any bivvies that are popular on the forum? I see that Terra Rosa gear makes both a bug net and Tyvek version. The lack of wind protection on the bug net probably isn't an issue given the warmth of my bag but I don't have any experience with tarps so am not sure how much splash protection is really needed. I can't imagine the Tyvek being terribly breathable.

Edit- I feel like this is far enough off the original topic to warrant a new post, which I'll get to doing


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