Water filters vs purifiers

[pete0762]

Hi,

I am currently looking into the purchase of a water filtration system. I find it hard to decide between filtration (i.e. MSR Hyperflow) and purification (i.e. Steripen Adventurer). There are some pros and cons about size, weight, use of batteries, costs etc which do not bother me too much but I am more interested in ease of use and maintainability as well as longivity under various conditions. I would primarily use it for walks in the Australian High Country, Tasmania but other areas as well (if I find the time to get there).

Your opinions are valued.

cheers
Peter

[Lizzy]

Hi,
I have not used a water filter- in the past used iodine or tablets, but now am sold on the Steripen. I have used the steripen in NZ and NSW- it is easy to use and I haven't gotten sick yet!! I bought mine online from Moontrails in the US- much cheaper and arrived in a week. The water should be fairly clean but you can always run it thru a pre-filter (hanky). I just fill a poweraide bottle, dip it in, stir it around and about a minute I get a smiley face and its good to drink- no change in taste, no waiting An easy decision if your not expecting too scanky water. Good luck
Lizzy

[Humpo]

Hi I have the Steripen Adv and MSR Miniworks. All i can say is that with these two you can drink sewer water and think its great. It great piece of mind. If i was to buy one but go with the steripen and a pre filer for your bottle. The miniworks is heavy but at about 400g but it does have the carbon filter as well.

[Jellybean]

Hi Pete,

I echo the comments of Lizzy and Humpo above. Until late last year I'd only used iodine, micropur tablets or boiling to treat water. I was after something that was light, convenient and chemical free and decided to buy a Steripen Adv with a pre-filter that fits over a Nally bottle. I've only just started using it, so can't comment on it's longevity/effectiveness over the long term but so far so good - way lighter than a filtration system, takes up very little room in your pack, very quick to treat water - 90 seconds for 1L - no added chemical taste; and no sickness. (Mind you, haven't used it with any really skanky water to date). Very happy! I also recommend buying it online from the US - way cheaper (less than half the price) of buying it locally.

Cheers,

Jenni

[geoffmallo]

Definitely the steripen. Your goal is to stay healthy and not get sick. A filter is too heavy for it's benefits unless you're drinking mud.

I've got both but only ever take the steripen.

[songairen]

We've used one of these for 5 years from a General Ecology office in Adelaide

http://generalecology.com/category/port ... rifier-new

Although ours is an older model. Because we carry it everywhere we usually make use of it and filter everything- from tank water to stagnant puddles. At the time it was the only portable mechanical filter that could be also be accredited as a purifier (meaning it is supposed to remove viruses as well as bacteria and protists). I don't know how whizzbang it is but we have never been sick- we've drunk some pretty gross water too- though I've not met many people who have been sick from water while hiking in Australia.

If you are interested in mechanical filters it may take some research to find out just what size organism/particle each one is capable of separating. I think I looked at a US gov't report (EPA or something) that compared and accredited the various American filter systems before choosing.

I assume the steripen uses UV treatment to kill all living organisms? I'm not sure if it eliminates viruses (not living) too? If the steripen does eliminate all the nasties then it is probably better in the sense that it is probably lighter, smaller, won't ever clog and you don't need to pump- our cartridge clogged on the last hike and it became tiresome to use (I'd estimate we have filtered about 7-800 lt with our 2 cartridges but most of the water has been good quality).

[Lizzy]

I think the steripen disrupts the little nasties DNA so they can't reproduce....

[photohiker]

What about toxins?

[Jellybean]

According the Steripen website (http://www.steripen.com/index.html)
"Used as directed, SteriPEN has been shown to destroy over: 99.9999% of bacteria, 99.99% of viruses and 99.9% of protozoa (i.e. Giardia and Cryptosporidium). These levels of destruction exceed the requirements of the US EPA's Guide Standard and Protocol for Testing Microbiological Water Purifiers".

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that filtration systems don't remove viruses and, as such, the Steripen is a more complete solution. Using the pre-filter on a nally bottle first removes any sediment (if required).

I got mine from either Basegear or Moontrail - can't remember. Both have similar prices (if you use the Basegear 20% off membership deal).

[photohiker]

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that filtration systems don't remove viruses and, as such, the Steripen is a more complete solution. Using the pre-filter on a nally bottle first removes any sediment (if required).

Me either, but the indications are that some filtration systems are up to the task: http://www.drinksafe-systems.co.uk/worl ... esting.php (I have one of their 'Travel tap' products for use in Scotland. Comes highly regarded, and has a feature that when the filtration media is end of life - it will not allow water to pass at all.

With the UV based systems, filtration is very important - without it, there are places for bugs to hide from the UV.

I'm still interested in toxins, I don't know if either system would remove them.

[Jellybean]

I'm still interested in toxins, I don't know if either system would remove them.

Maybe someone else can offer advice there?

Re the system you've posted details for - does it actually remove viruses? (It doesn't make that clear - as it has for bacteria, chemicals and sediment)?

[photohiker]

Re the system you've posted details for - does it actually remove viruses? (It doesn't make that clear - as it has for bacteria, chemicals and sediment)?

Apparently:

Drinksafe-systems purified water filter systems contain up to 10 stages of water processing technology; These include patented ABSOLUTE filtration for the life of the filter, with Environmental Protection Agency purification media pre purification and chemical absorbing media inbuilt into every system. Combined these are proven to exclude threat from pathogens, protozoa, schistomas, spores and viruses that are the causes of disease and sickness from untreated water sources – often the result of human and animal interference.

Drinksafe-systems are the only portable systems to have been UK Govt laboratory tested for instant removal of Anthrax. (UK MoD testing) .

Instant removal of disease causes that may be found in water

Harmful bacteria, protozoa, schistomas and viruses. These include cryptosporidium occysts, giardia, E-coli, viruses , anthrax

[Jellybean]

Re the system you've posted details for - does it actually remove viruses? (It doesn't make that clear - as it has for bacteria, chemicals and sediment)?

Apparently:

Drinksafe-systems purified water filter systems contain up to 10 stages of water processing technology; These include patented ABSOLUTE filtration for the life of the filter, with Environmental Protection Agency purification media pre purification and chemical absorbing media inbuilt into every system. Combined these are proven to exclude threat from pathogens, protozoa, schistomas, spores and viruses that are the causes of disease and sickness from untreated water sources – often the result of human and animal interference.

Drinksafe-systems are the only portable systems to have been UK Govt laboratory tested for instant removal of Anthrax. (UK MoD testing) .

Instant removal of disease causes that may be found in water

Harmful bacteria, protozoa, schistomas and viruses. These include cryptosporidium occysts, giardia, E-coli, viruses , anthrax

Hmmm, my quick skim read clearly wasn't thorough enough! Sorry!

Wow, it even removes anthrax ... given it's UK development does it get rid of the causative agents for mad cow's disease too? (Sorry, just joking).

Seems like it is very thorough.

[photohiker]

It does seem thorough.

Better than the UV option? who knows. If you wanted to be real careful, you'd probably use both and then boil the resulting water.

Not much would get past a hankie filter and boiling anyway, so these systems are about convenience and peace of mind I guess.

[pete0762]

Thanks for the interesting discussion and I think I will go for the Steripen with a prefilter. One of the requirements I needed it to be lightweight for multiday bushwalks (8-10 days) in the Australian bush, where one needs to be completely selfreliant (with food, tent etc). The level of treatment required in my opinion depends a bit on where one uses it. Australia (esp Tasmania and the High Country in the SE) water quality is not too bad and either a UV system or filtration system would be sufficient.

Viruses are according to my knowledge not removed by filters (which filter to a size of around 0.1 to 0.3 microns). Toxins can be removed only the filter also includes an activated carbon and/or resin core (which I think is the case for some Kathadyn filters).

It is important to know what level of treatment one requires and not to go over the top with it. I never used to filter any water when trekking and mountaineering in the European Alps and I still think the water quality of high mountain streams are as clean as it gets. I think in Australia Protozoa and bacteria of most concern, but not so much any viruses. Other countries and regions are of course different and the closer to human habitation the worse it (the water) gets.

cheers
Peter

cheers
Peter

[Orion]

Viruses are according to my knowledge not removed by filters (which filter to a size of around 0.1 to 0.3 microns).

The First Need filter from General Ecology removes viruses (not sure if you can find that one in Australia). They use a typical pore size of 0.4 microns. The viruses are removed by electrostatic affinity.

Then there's the Lifesaver bottle that has a pore size of 15 nm. They claim you can use it to filter your own urine.

Cheers!

[Lizzy]

One thing to add - when using a steripen carry some salt or powdered gatoraide (or similar) as the light will not work if the unit does not detect water and it may not detect very pure water with few electrolytes. This seemed to happen to me a few times in NZ and Australia....

[Robbo]

Then there's the Lifesaver bottle that has a pore size of 15 nm.

I found these links of interest - particularly the TED video:
http://www.ted.com/talks/michael_pritch ... ilter.html
http://www.lifesaversystems.com/aboutus.html
http://www.lifesaverbottleaus.com/purchase.htm

$255 might be a bit steep, but if it saves one bout of gastro its probably worth it...

TR

[ninjapuppet]

One thing to add - when using a steripen carry some salt or powdered gatoraide (or similar) as the light will not work if the unit does not detect water and it may not detect very pure water with few electrolytes. This seemed to happen to me a few times in NZ and Australia....

WOW that must be some seriously clean water!!!
i tried mine in spring water, and distilled water just now and it works. making me question the "pureness" of bottled water now.

[ninjapuppet]

Then there's the Lifesaver bottle that has a pore size of 15 nm. They claim you can use it to filter your own urine.

Cheers!

There would have to be a serious psychological barrier to be overcome, before one resorts to such desperate measures!

haha

[davidmorr]

Hi,
I have not used a water filter- in the past used iodine or tablets, but now am sold on the Steripen. I have used the steripen in NZ and NSW- it is easy to use and I haven't gotten sick yet!! I bought mine online from Moontrails in the US- much cheaper and arrived in a week. The water should be fairly clean but you can always run it thru a pre-filter (hanky). I just fill a poweraide bottle, dip it in, stir it around and about a minute I get a smiley face and its good to drink- no change in taste, no waiting An easy decision if your not expecting too scanky water. Good luck
Lizzy

I gather you have the Journey model (smiley face). Are you using Lithium CR123 or rechargeable batteries?

Have you had any difficulty getting batteries for it? Dick Smith tell me that they only keep the CR123 for old film cameras, and given that film is rapidly disappearing, how long will the batteries be available?

I notice that Moontrail has the Journey on special at the moment, $US79.65. The cheapest postage adds $US20 (ie, total of about $A110)and could take 15-60 days. To get it faster costs $38, $44 or $59

Someone in Singapore is selling them on eBay for $A112 plus $A10 for 3-8 days delivery.

[Lizzy]

Hi David,
Yep- I have the journey and am using the Lithium battery which came with it- have not yet replaced it (just took purification tabs with me on standby should it run out). Will have to keep my eyes open for the battery now. I'm pretty sure I just got standard postage from Moontrail and it still got here in the week... have bought from them a couple of times all with no problem. No experience with the Singapore mob- let us know who you chose and how you go.
Cheers
Lizzy

[eddie the eagle]

Hi,

I am currently looking into the purchase of a water filtration system. I find it hard to decide between filtration (i.e. MSR Hyperflow) and purification (i.e. Steripen Adventurer). There are some pros and cons about size, weight, use of batteries, costs etc which do not bother me too much but I am more interested in ease of use and maintainability as well as longivity under various conditions. I would primarily use it for walks in the Australian High Country, Tasmania but other areas as well (if I find the time to get there).

Your opinions are valued.

cheers
Peter

Hi Peter,

Without having read the replies, I use an MSR gravity flow filter (Autoflow = brand name???) and it works brilliantly. (Leading groups of up to 10 through NSW national parks.)

No batteries, no hassles, no problems at all. Not on the shelves, but out the back in most shops

Cheers,

eddie

edit: no idea if this one removes viruses, having seen the last few replies.

[adventurerichard]

Here's the short version:
filters rely on physically removing stuff by catching it. Viruses are too small to be be caught. Viruses are species specific (swine flu, bird flu are perhaps exceptions but of the billions of viruses, this statement is true) so you really only need to worry about viruses if they're human viruses, which unless someone has a toilet upstream, you don't need to worry about unless you're in the third world (to generalise).

UV purifiers won't remove sediment so prefiltering as others have said is vital in dirty looking water. A cloth, or whatever will do this easily. Steripen make one for $30.

in short, purify if you're dealing with possible human interference (faeces) otherwise filtering is sufficient. steripen nails it IMO for size, weight, laziness, speed BUT i would always have a back up (boiling for 10 mins) because no product has ever been made that has never failed.

[flatfoot]

Lots of useful information in this thread! The thread has sold me on the steripen and I found this video about one of their filters.

Video: Steripen Fits All Filter i.e. http://www.steripen.com/fitsall

Does anyone carry the tablets as a backup solution to a filter and/or steripen? What is the shelf life of the tablets?

A review of the SteriPen Adventurer Opti here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWC_udCkTJc

[adventurerichard]

tablets are pretty ineffective against crypso especially iodine. given even on daywalks i have a jetboil i.e. stove, i'd boil rather than use chemicals.

tablets usually get a few years shelf life.

[davidmorr]

Has anyone tried the MSR MIOX?

http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/water ... er/product

"Reliable purification: Inactivates all viruses, bacteria, Giardia, and Cryptosporidium and test strips assure effectiveness."

Bit more expensive than the Steripen, but possibly also a bit more robust in construction. I'm not sure how long the tubes in the Steripen will last given a bit of knocking around as they would get in a pack.

[davidmorr]

Does anyone carry the tablets as a backup solution to a filter and/or steripen? What is the shelf life of the tablets?

I used to use Betadiene to purify water, until I found out I had a mild iodine allergy.

[adventurerichard]

Has anyone tried the MSR MIOX?

http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/water ... er/product

"Reliable purification: Inactivates all viruses, bacteria, Giardia, and Cryptosporidium and test strips assure effectiveness."

Bit more expensive than the Steripen, but possibly also a bit more robust in construction. I'm not sure how long the tubes in the Steripen will last given a bit of knocking around as they would get in a pack.

I had one. IIRC essentially you're able to make chlorine dioxide on the go (using salt and water) which is like making your own micropur tablets. This means the same lack of effectiveness to crypso that all chemicals have (they're tough little bugegrs!). It was hugely fiddly, expensive and there was still a long contact time like chemicals. you'll still need to filter if the water's cloudy. no advantage over a steripen which is faster and quite robust enough.

[ozjolly]

Surely the biggest issue with a steripen is reliability. They were failing left right and centre when I did Kokoda so I don't think they handle high humidity well (strange for a WATER filter).

I often hear the argument that you shouldn't rely solely on a GPS for navigation because it could fail and you'd be lost without a backup. Surely the same logic applies to electronic water filters?

I just invested in a Katadyn Hiker Pro which seems to work well so far and pumps water at a very good rate. A little bigger than some.

Joel