Cooking set rather than cremating set

[Ent]

Hi

In the age of gram counting we appear to have lost the concept that a cooking set should be that, rather than a cremating set suitable only for boiling water. I am chasing after say a 1 to 1.5 litre low pot with a lid that can double as a frypan. Compact size rather than weight is the only consideration along with definitive locking systems for handles and lids. The Snowpeak titanium set is decidedly dodgy in handle strength and locking system.

The ideal set would be a heavy aluminum based pot and lid. I have quite a few sets of cooking gear ranging from Snowpeak titanium set to Primus ETA. The ETA is probably the best pot but rather large. I use a GSI folding frypan which is excellent but what I am after is a Snowpeak type configuration of pot with frypan lid both with a heavy base that can fry fish on and simmer things that do not appreciate hot spots. I have a Primus Spider and Gravity stove. The Spider flame is rather concentrated but the stove packs small. The Gravity folds flat with a broad flame but needs a 1.5 litre or very low 1 litre pot to fit into.

Any suggestions?

Cheers

[Franco]

What about the Primus Classic set or the LiTech Super set ,aluminium with non stick Ti inside
http://www.primus.eu/Templates/Pages/Pr ... emId=87695
no experience, I boil only...
Franco

[Ent]

Hi Franco

One of the pots systems looks so much like the Optimus Weekender that I have that I would be tempted to say it is the same thing rebranded. No sadly Primus is very light gauge aluminum but at least the coating is light years ahead of the MSR Blacklite cookset.

Cheers Brett

[Son of a Beach]

May end up being worthwhile getting a Trangia lid/frypan on it's own. They come in a couple of different sizes. I've not yet seen anything that's better for frying than than the Trangia lid/frypan without being substantially heavier. All the Trangia components can be purchased separately, and I'm seriously considering getting the small Trangia frypan to go with my Snow Peak Titanium pots. The lid/frypan that came with them doesn't sit on top as a lid properly anyhow - I don't know why it's so poorly designed (apart from burning everything fried in the middle while leaving stuff near the rim raw).

I agree with others in this other topic that Titanium is a waste of money for fry-ware and possibly for other cookware (after having wasted my own money on it last year). Aluminium or even stainless steel seems to be the way to go - at least for any frypan.

I just need to check if the smaller Trangia frypan would be a reasonable fit as a lid on my larger Snow Peak pot.

[Ent]

Hi Nik

Yeap, it is what you say about the Snowpeak Titanium stuff. The handle on the lid needs to be held correctly if any weight is on it else gravity takes over. Appears that the design was endorsed by the local possum association for free food. Mind you the poor blighters would have to like burnt offerings. Hunted high an low on the web and everything is much the same. Yet another case where all manufacturers aim for the exact same market with many brand's offerings looking remarkably similar to the point of coming from the same factory. The boil water brigade appear to rule the walking world at the moment. Much like the solo tent market with length being short, shorter and shortest.

The GSI frypan which I have is excellent for frying but even with the folding handle it does not stack well with other stuff so the non stick surface is vulnerable. Now a pot set that uses this gauge for the base and thinner side walls with a frypan acting as lid would be the go at around 6" diameter especially if it could hold a Primus Gravity which is wide, if flat stove.

The Primus ETA lid/frypan is thicker from memory than the Trangia ones so might give this the kitchen top test to fry an egg or pancake or two as it is designed to work with the same narrow burner as is on the Spider. The square edge sides though make for a tricky sliding food out plus the gripper is yet another thing to lose in the mud plus the non stick surface is vulnerable in the pack. I like the GSI Pinnacle setup for locking in the handle but again too thin base me thinks.

The rather romantic idea of frying a trout while steaming/boiling vegetables appears to be a dream only realised with the space of a 90 litre pack. I am sought of being lured into walking/fishing idea but burnt food is not where I am at.

Cheers Brett

[photohiker]

Just take one of the pots from home?

Doesn't this all come down to ability rather than tools? I've eaten great meals cooked in the bush on rubbish I wouldn't use in the garden for flowerpots. I've also tried to eat foul tasting indigestible gruel cooked in $500 French cookware...

True, some cookware heats evenly and makes it harder to burn the food (and probably uses more fuel), but the cooks job is the same as the carpenter's: make something nice with what ya got

[Franco]

Optimus and Primus are both members of the SOG (Scandinavian Outdoor Group) so it makes sense that some of their products are very similar. (sharing R&D/manufacturing and advertising )
Franco

[Marwood]

This (http://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/30191673) frying pan from Ikea is non-stick, weighs 300g and costs $AUD5. I have a couple of them that I use for low to medium-hot temperature frying in the kitchen, and on the trail on my gas stove.

Probably I'm a tail-ender in the outdoor cooking brand-name stakes though

[Son of a Beach]

Just take one of the pots from home?

Doesn't this all come down to ability rather than tools? I've eaten great meals cooked in the bush on rubbish I wouldn't use in the garden for flowerpots. I've also tried to eat foul tasting indigestible gruel cooked in $500 French cookware...

True, some cookware heats evenly and makes it harder to burn the food (and probably uses more fuel), but the cooks job is the same as the carpenter's: make something nice with what ya got

No, definitely not. Have you ever tried cooking pancakes in a thin titanium lid frypan? I'm no chef, but am competent at simple cooking, and there is no way it could be done on my lid, with the possible exception (not yet tried) of constantly moving the pan in circles over the flame. This is not acceptable to me and I doubt it would work, anyhow.

Again it depends on what you want to eat. If you can cook the food you want to eat then why not do it? For me it's well worn a few extra grams to have bacon and eggs or pancakes for breakfast some times. Milk powder is rather ordinary, and so are most of the other breakfast options I've tried. So I like to break them up with something better some times.

For many people it's fine if they dont cook pancakes or fry eggs etc. But I have at least one pancake breakfast on most long walks and fry eggs on most short walks.

I really don't think there are any reasonable measures I could take to make that pan work well for frying, and I don't think I'm an incompetent cook.

Of course for some meals it doesn't matter so much. In particular, if all your cooking just requires boiling and mixing then just about any cookware would do.

There is no way I am going to attempt frying on my titanium lid pan again. It really is that bad.

I think it is partly due to the metal type, and partly due to how thin the metal is.

[photohiker]

All fair enough, except it somehow missed my key point: "Make something nice with what ya got"

If your 'nice' filter only suggests something that absolutely cannot be cooked with what ya got, then I guess you either have to change the filter (cook something else) or change what ya got. In which case maybe the pot from home isn't such a bad idea. Personally I don't take eggs, but if I did - I'd poach - frying is too messy and oily for me.

Have you tried putting something between the pan and the flame? I wouldn't be surprised if the uneven spread of heat could be solved in this way.

I've seen people pull out a pan and cook a steak days out from civilisation. There's a certain edginess in their behaviour as the cooking smells waft around and the hungry hordes start to pay attention. Very entertaining

[Son of a Beach]

Eggs I can poach. Some steaks cook OK on the Ti lid. But I can't poach eggs, and fry bacon at the same time.

I think I understood you point, but probably didn't reply very well. I have certain things I like to eat while walking, and they cannot be done with what I've got (well, not with that particular kit, anyhow).

[photohiker]

Eggs I can poach. Some steaks cook OK on the Ti lid. But I can't poach eggs, and fry bacon at the same time.

That's all well and good, but how do you fry eggs and bacon and heat croissants at the same time?

Getting back to the problem, its basically caused by a small hot flame applied to the thin low mass pan. Something to spread the heat before it hits the pot should help.

I had a look for that little 'something' to go between the flame and the pan and I have found 2 types.

* There is a Simmer Plate, which is generally something heavy (cast Iron or Copper) which is designed to tame a cooker that won't simmer. Too heavy, and would probably consume too much gas getting up to temp anyway.

* Then there is the Gas Diffuser which can be a lot lighter although there are also heavy versions like the simmer plate. The lighter versions look to be a sheet of aluminium or stainless with many small holes in it. This would be easy to make or modify for minimal size/weight camping stove use - wouldn't have to weigh much and might be useful for other purposes (strainer or stand perhaps)

Could be worth a try.

[photohiker]

Oh yea, You are not alone (kikaruforums)

Edit: Found a camp stove diffuser at Packit Gourmet and a blog entry about it.

[Son of a Beach]

Eggs I can poach. Some steaks cook OK on the Ti lid. But I can't poach eggs, and fry bacon at the same time.

That's all well and good, but how do you fry eggs and bacon and heat croissants at the same time?

Getting back to the problem, its basically caused by a small hot flame applied to the thin low mass pan. Something to spread the heat before it hits the pot should help.

I had a look for that little 'something' to go between the flame and the pan and I have found 2 types.

* There is a Simmer Plate, which is generally something heavy (cast Iron or Copper) which is designed to tame a cooker that won't simmer. Too heavy, and would probably consume too much gas getting up to temp anyway.

* Then there is the Gas Diffuser which can be a lot lighter although there are also heavy versions like the simmer plate. The lighter versions look to be a sheet of aluminium or stainless with many small holes in it. This would be easy to make or modify for minimal size/weight camping stove use - wouldn't have to weigh much and might be useful for other purposes (strainer or stand perhaps)

Could be worth a try.

Thanks for the lateral thinking Michael. There's some good ideas there - well worth considering, at least. I'd probably still prefer a single pan/lid that did the job properly, but if the existing lid and a diffuser ended up being lighter, and not too fiddly, then it may be worth a shot.

[Ent]

The idea of this thread was not to lower standards to basically boil water type things, as if that was the case then a simple burner and mug is all that anyone would need (and many only use this), so why have a large collection of cooksets on the market cluttering up shops As for the carpenter blaming tools I suppose that if the only tool a carpenter has is a hammer then the only solution is hitting things rather than cutting a dove joint, etc Then again the only tool being a hammer would explain some of the items flogged as furniture with particleboard held together by nails rather than the dedicated particleboard fittings.

I was hoping to find if someone had either found decent cookset or an innovative use of other things, rather than being told that I lack the skill to simmer a delicate sauce or fry fish on a wafer thin titanium pot/lid Still working on the proverbs "nothing is impossible - for the person that does not have to do it them-self" I look forward to seeing a hollandaise sauce prepared and served over a fish lightly pan fried in butter using a Snowpeak titanium cookset while perched on a rock under a tarp in heavy rains with streams running past the cooking gear Maybe the person that achieves that feat can enter the Iron Chief cooking arena rather than occupying the balcony seats of the Muppet Show with claims that I should be able to do this Sure, I could buy fish shrink wrapped in plastic with a sauce and boil this and serve it up as top tucker, as many over price five star hotels do, as parodied in "Pie in the Sky"'s first episode. Yes there are many options to work around poor tools but as a gear freak I tend to like using the "right tool for the job".

The catalyst for this thread was my attempt to reduce from a 90 litre pack down to a 60 litre pack while still maintaining a level of luxury. Most items worked well but cooking with a Snowpeak titanium set did not The space constraints means domestic equipment with non removable handles is not an option though at times such items have venture forth into the wilderness hung off the back of people's packs I normally use a trivet as stand in for a steamer though the Korean made butterfly steamer inserts are great, just very heavy. I am after a pot around 6" with heavy base and frypan lid out of aluminum that stacks into minimum space protecting the non stick surface to replace my Primus ETA and GSI frypan that I normally carry.

In a was the old timers using horses that had the cooking issue sussed with cast iron pots and frypans. Sort of difficult sneaking a train of pack horses into a National Park nowadays but maybe I could try that

I will check out the link posted as I do get the feeling the solution will be taking a domestic item that handles can be removed and replace easily, maybe using a rock as a hammer, as all cooksets I have seen today are the same principle, that being light gauge metal with no attempted to make a thicker base

Cheers

[photohiker]

As for the carpenter blaming tools I suppose that if the only tool a carpenter has is a hammer then the only solution is hitting things rather than cutting a dove joint, etc

That's quite reductionist of you

Given less than perfect tools (chinese chisels and a heavy bolster for instance) a good carpenter would still cut a better dovetail joint than someone less skilled wielding the finest from Sweden and Japan. The issue for both your pots and the carpenter's tools is not the lack of options but the quality thereof.

I've not tried, but I suspect your hollandaise sauce could be cooked quite effectively in water using a freezer bag as a double boiler.

[sthughes]

32cm Tefal pan works well, takes up no space (at least not in the pack) and weighs little more than a kilogram. To help more with heat distribution and stability I use 2 Kovea style burners, though three would be better

[sailfish]

I havn't read the whole thread but just wondering if a small wok with handle might be a better option as its shape spreads a flames heat better than a pan or so I am told.

Regards,
Ken

[Son of a Beach]

Here's a couple of suggestions (available from a variety of online stores):

• GSI Pinnacle 8” Frypan - annodized aluminium
• Fry-Bake Alpine 8" Frypan - annodized aluminium

Both expensive, but reviews are good.

[Ent]

Hi Sailfish thanks for the wok idea. Never thought of a small steel wok. In Tasmania most domestic stoves are electric so wok cooking not common. Generally they are designed for high heat with no delicate coating to protect so could so the trick for woking type dishes but balance could be an issue as most wok burners are designed to handle the curve base while a light weight stove might struggle to be stable enough. I suppose if they came with a base ring that the burner could sit in might do the trick as well as acting as a heat shield. Me think time to visit brother and borrow his lathe/workshop as the Primus Spider been a remote stove is low and the Gravity even more so. Will check out Habitat to see what is around in the smaller size woks.

Thanks Son of a beach for the link. The product looks interesting and the price not too extreme given what MSR/Optimus, etc, charge. Being spun aluminum it will be interesting if they thin up the sides or stick with the same universal thickness. Also hard plating is the go as I think the Optimus Weekender uses that to good effect. Much better than MSR Black-lite stuff. Appears a few innovative people are getting past "banging those rocks together" stage and shows what happens when local manufacturing exists rather than the mediocrity of the mass Chinese production and the marketers that flog the goods brought at trade fairs under countless brand names claiming special "attributes" in an attempt to blindside consumers.

Mr Sthughes I remember following that frypan into Waterfall Valley. If you need number three stove I can lend you my Kovera Ti Given you heavy lift capacity maybe a cast iron dutch oven as well for your roast lamb/turkey for Christmas in July next year?

Anyone used the Jetboil frypan on non Jetboil stoves? Bit bigger than I wanted by it looks like it comes with two plates and might hold the Primus Gravity stove.

Cheers

[dancier]

I've been thinking much the same about cookware of late. I always skimp on weight and size but that has a profound affect on the meals that I make. After reading the discussion here, I thought I'd look through the REI site, not sure if they deliver to OZ but I found a fry-pan that might be suitable. You just need to find something similar.

http://www.rei.com/product/765752

REI Campware Nonstick Frypan - 10'' (550 grams)

Ray commented/reviewed.
I've cooked everything from fresh caught rainbow trout w/hollandaise sauce to egg white omelet w/chalets, mushrooms and cheese. This pan is better than home pans. I use it for car camping and back packing. The fold up handle makes it easy to pack.

[Tony]

Hi Ent,

There are several options that you maybe able to do to solve your cooking/space dilemma.

One option is, change your ‘must go luxury’ philosophy and give up the luxury five star gear and top shelf gourmet food, this will save you lost of space and many kg’s, but I know that you are not willing to do this.

My attitude is that I go bushwalking to enjoy the bush, the solitude, the exercise, the wild life, being exposed to the elements, getting back to the basics, etc, and while I enjoy a nice meal in the bush gourmet food is not the reason that I go bushwalking, if you want five star luxury and gourmet food go to a resort, I prefer a five billion star resort myself.

The second option is that you can do is what you are trying to do, try finding a perfect solution, a cooking pot or pan that has perfect cooking abilities with no weight and volume but sometimes it is hard to “have your cake and eat it too”.

With Titanium cooking ware, the reason Ti cook wear is light is because of its strength the pots can be made very thin but as most know Ti has very poor thermal conductivity (about 15 times less that aluminum) so a thin Ti pot is really only good for boiling water, Ti is also a lot heavier that Aluminum, Ti has a density of 4.5 and Al has a density of 2.7, Stainless steel is around 7.9. So in my opinion the best option for you would be an Al frypan with a thick base to spread the heat around.

The next option is to compromise and from the posts on this thread there are a few fry pan options out there that are suitable to cook steak and eggs etc but they are fairly heavy and bulky. I will add another possible fry pan option to the list, this option is a hard anodized aluminum fry pan of 19cm (7.5”) diameter with a grooved base and weighs 206g, this pan can be purchased in a kit with other pots from Kellys Base Camp

Tony

[Ent]

Hi Tony

People walk for many reasons and carry an amazing array of things that define who they are. For me lugging a stuffed toy around is not my thing but to a friend a walk is not complete without a photo of Elmo parked on various scenic places. People trek with camera equipment best suited to photograph studio but I am not going to suggest that they should compromise, merely suggest what pack or bag or waterproof solution that has worked or not worked for me. I walk about one out of four weekends with things going well so a significant part of my spare time is spent camping so two minutes noddles becomes rather boring cuisine, one I prefer to keep for longer walks where there is no option.

A growing trend has been a philosophy of peak bagging, fast and light, covering as much ground, etc on this site and also within at least one bushwalking club I am familiar with. This great for those passive aggressive personalities but for me it is about being out in environment with my personal aim doing as the trappers and bush people did until not so long ago in Tassie. They sought to bring the comforts of home in and often I will borrow the heavy cast iron frypans and wood fired stoves they left behind in an egalitarian way for others to use plus making sure that the wood supply is better than I found it and the hut cleaner. For me it is the social history and things like huts rather than the abstract concept of "pristine" wilderness or setting fastest times. I will leave "Man versus wild" and fastest/most peaks covered to those they feel the need to measure their self worth that way.

Also I encourage other to walk and if their experience is of a dry warm sleep after an nice meal and evening of socializing then they likely will walk again as well as investing in equipment which means an increased chance of walking companions. I wonder how many partners of the fast and light brigade stay at home after been subjected to a forced march, crummy food and cold night out? As one friend put it, she is four stars and her husband is no stars. Many people four wheel drive so they can experience both the bush and a level of comfort that persuades their partner/children to go with them.

The driving motivation behind this thread was the walk last weekend into Daisy Lakes. It rained like mad but one member brought a tarp so we could socialize as a group. Two members brought fishing rods but had they been successful we had nothing to do justice to fresh trout caught in a lake that has only rain water from its immediately viable local catchment feeding it. Shivers, burning such natures bounty on a titanium pot lid frypan is a crime beyond any reasonable weight penalty. If people can not understand that, then this thread will appear very strange and indulgent.

My aim is to have gear that is suitable for all times and places in Tassie and figure that a well setup sixty litre pack crammed with carefully selected items will give me the ability to do this ofr an overnight walk or more. I largely succeeded expect for the cooking side and it was rather funny that two members carrying rods, one in their hand, only had minimalist stoves and cooking gear so I assume it was a catch and release trip or predicting boasting about the one that got away or never was caught Given our group's experience trapped by a ragging creek it would not surprise me that someone in our group is quietly mulling over the need to for at least 10 metres of good rope to bring next time. I brought and now carry a PLB, others carry traps, and such items add to the safety and comfort of the group.

Much discussion revolves around light weight solo gear for fast and light trips but there is another side to walking, traditional Tassie group walks with shared gear, and finding decent cooking gear to achieve this is the aim of this thread.

Cheers Brett

[flatfoot]

A swedish ultra-light enthusiast had one of these cook sets on the OT.

http://www.optimusstoves.com/seen/optimus-products/products/katadynshopconnect/optimus-kochgeschirr-und-besteck/optimus-terra-weekend-he-cook-set/

I looks like a versatile alternative to a JetBoil. It's also got sufficient diameter for storing a standard-size 230g gas canister. Can anyone give me some stats for the time it takes to boil 500ml of water in one of these pots?

[ninjapuppet]

hi flat foot,

the macpac store in sydney had something like that on sale from $80 down to $30 i think.
Its an absolute bargain!

[Nuts]

I picked up a couple of non stick small wok sets from chickers, $9. They are very light (i could go and weigh it if you like only Im getting a bit bored too with this pervasive gram counting coming first (PM me if you really want the weight) As mentioned on BPL, perhaps indeed we on this site Have been 'brought around'? ) They are flat bottom.

GSI six piece mess kits come with nice frying pans (non stick), and cheap.

MSR titanium pots are really nice, have been going for 2 yrs, Very strong (and light), they have good handles and minimal lids but i dont think they bother to make a Ti frying pan?

Merry Xmas, nuts

[flatfoot]

hi flat foot,

the macpac store in sydney had something like that on sale from $80 down to $30 i think.
Its an absolute bargain!

I saw the set you are referring to in the macpac Hobart store yesterday. It was this one with the tiny mug: http://www.macpac.com.au/shop/en_au/gear-and-clothing/accessories/camping-stoves/solo-ano-pot-set.html?___SID=U

[Stuntman]

Long time lurker here, have you thought about one of the tefal ingenio pans. Not a lightweight for sure. For me as I kayak camp (weight less of an issue - packability the key key consideration) I am thinking about upgrading to one of these after going through the Ti pan cremating saga - and for its long term sustainability in a salt water and sandy enviroments.

For family camping we also have a GSI pinnacle camper set that we use for car camping. Its pretty good - except for the plastic lids for the pans. If I had seen the tefal cocoon set before I had bought the GSI set, I probably would have gone that way in the first place.

To carry a heavy pan like the tefal on a bushwalk you gotta really love your food but thought I'd throw it out as option.

[RodLawlor]

I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I reckon the Trangia frypan is hard to beat. Try the HA version for better non-stick durability.