The Great Tent-off: MSR Hubba Hubba HP Vs Hilleberg Nallo 2

[geoskid]

what Hilleberg one line catalog are you referring to? I went looking to see if it is the same as the around thirty-two page one that came with one of one of my tents but could not find it online. I will have a look at home to see if I still have mine but fear it might have been chucked due an ill advised clean up of paperwork in my unit.
Regards

Brett, please address Photohikers doubts about your assertion re Hillebergs material being fire retardant

[photohiker]

Photohiker what Hilleberg one line catalog are you referring to? I went looking to see if it is the same as the around thirty-two page one that came with one of one of my tents but could not find it online. I will have a look at home to see if I still have mine but fear it might have been chucked due an ill advised clean up of paperwork in my unit.

The catalog I have was found on google. Its called "Hilleberg The Tentmaker; The Tent Handbook" 2009 English. 64 pages. It goes through the Hilleberg Principles, History, Design and Development, etc etc. Its very comprehensive and has tips in it that apply to most hiking tents as well as specific information about all the tents in the range. I was surprised to see that your favourite tent supplier also makes and supplies lightweight tarps! LOL I think you should write them a short missive so that they see the error of their ways. haha.

Anyway, not a word in it about the fireproof-ness or otherwise of their tents, nor recommendations for or against cooking inside the tent.

[Ent]

Hi

There are lies, dammed lies, and specifications. A brand new item might claim, accurately, one set of specifications but quickly loss the ability with age while another brand might claim a lower initial set of specifications but have a significantly lower drop off over time. It is my belief, backed with experience with the MD Kaon, that as initially as good as the thinner silicon fabrics are, and while showing much great potential resistance to UV damage, they are vulnerable to rubbing damage that a thicker material can stand up to. On the Kaon the zip catches the over lap flap on the door and after a few catches the fabric wore through. A 70 denier probably would have resisted that treatment better. Sure, proper care is the go but as they say, things happen. Regardless of brand I would look long and hard at rub areas and the MSR appears to have given consider thought to this. Also with the Hilleberg and Scarp using pole sleeves such and issue is largely controlled. It is a case were a modernized older design might have a few issues that the original did not. Bit wary myself of thin flys stretched over poles but maybe it is me being old fashion in my thinking.

Both the Scarp, Hilleberg and MSR avoid the bed wetting door opening with rain coming down. As for wind blown rain, it is an almost perverse that sometimes no matter how carefully you place a tent the wind direction will change. The Scarp with twin doors gives better options but the best tent I have found is a double ended tunnel design such as the Hilleberg Kaitum. The MD Kaon is not too bad but been a dome it does have the problem of the top of the door extending inward to the inner of the tent and in heavy rain the inner then outer pitch, plus mesh pole sleeves make for an exercise in just accepting that things will get wet.

Also i use a large Neo-air, Exped mat and Pro-lite so any photographs of those three laid out would make a tent look smaller than three regulars.

As for season rating on tents I get horribly confused as it appears to have more to do with marketing hype than any clear point. Unless an interior tent can be fully closed off more than a few would consider a tent that can not do that three seasons, not four. My dreaded MD Kaon claims 3.5 seasons on the grounds of its three pole dome construction and step sides will shed snow and resist wind. Just the mesh doors that extend down to the bathtub floor makes for a very cold night with a lazy wind. Its inner then outer pitch means not much fun setting up and taking down in the rain. Most people buy the 1200 fabric with 9mm pole versions of the Hillebergs in Tasmania but they make near matching versions out 1800 with 10mm poles that can be doubled up. A perfect bomb proof approach for the person that does not have to carry the tent but then again if I was hanging of Everest I might consider such over engineering not a bad thing.

To me the high mesh in the Scarp and MSR should not be considered reasons to consider for Tasmanian conditions such tents three season but maybe if it was at the extremes of Alska or Sweden then such things are a consideration?

Cheers Brett

[corvus]

Gees we do get a bit technical what with denier , waterhead ,DWR coating ,rain ingress.vapour egress,wind shear,snow shed ,footprint or none,taught or not,square or askew,long or short,wide or narrow,tall or not, how heavy, even reference to to the old style A frame
Ahh !! life is perfect we are all different, seem to like similar things have diverse income streams love variety and come together in this forum to discuss things without rancour or even knicker twisting, got to love it
c

[geoskid]

Hi

There are lies, dammed lies, and specifications. A brand new item might claim, accurately, one set of specifications but quickly loss the ability with age while another brand might claim a lower initial set of specifications but have a significantly lower drop off over time. It is my belief, backed with experience with the MD Kaon, that as initially as good as the thinner silicon fabrics are, and while showing much great potential resistance to UV damage, they are vulnerable to rubbing damage that a thicker material can stand up to. On the Kaon the zip catches the over lap flap on the door and after a few catches the fabric wore through. A 70 denier probably would have resisted that treatment better. Sure, proper care is the go but as they say, things happen. Regardless of brand I would look long and hard at rub areas and the MSR appears to have given consider thought to this. Also with the Hilleberg and Scarp using pole sleeves such and issue is largely controlled. It is a case were a modernized older design might have a few issues that the original did not. Bit wary myself of thin flys stretched over poles but maybe it is me being old fashion in my thinking.

Both the Scarp, Hilleberg and MSR avoid the bed wetting door opening with rain coming down. As for wind blown rain, it is an almost perverse that sometimes no matter how carefully you place a tent the wind direction will change. The Scarp with twin doors gives better options but the best tent I have found is a double ended tunnel design such as the Hilleberg Kaitum. The MD Kaon is not too bad but been a dome it does have the problem of the top of the door extending inward to the inner of the tent and in heavy rain the inner then outer pitch, plus mesh pole sleeves make for an exercise in just accepting that things will get wet.

Also i use a large Neo-air, Exped mat and Pro-lite so any photographs of those three laid out would make a tent look smaller than three regulars.

As for season rating on tents I get horribly confused as it appears to have more to do with marketing hype than any clear point. Unless an interior tent can be fully closed off more than a few would consider a tent that can not do that three seasons, not four. My dreaded MD Kaon claims 3.5 seasons on the grounds of its three pole dome construction and step sides will shed snow and resist wind. Just the mesh doors that extend down to the bathtub floor makes for a very cold night with a lazy wind. Its inner then outer pitch means not much fun setting up and taking down in the rain. Most people buy the 1200 fabric with 9mm pole versions of the Hillebergs in Tasmania but they make near matching versions out 1800 with 10mm poles that can be doubled up. A perfect bomb proof approach for the person that does not have to carry the tent but then again if I was hanging of Everest I might consider such over engineering not a bad thing.

To me the high mesh in the Scarp and MSR should not be considered reasons to consider for Tasmanian conditions such tents three season but maybe if it was at the extremes of Alska or Sweden then such things are a consideration?

Cheers Brett

Hi Brett - what about your assertion re Hillebergs fire retardent material - you need to do this more than we need to hear it. And sincerity counts for a lot!

[roysta]

Guys, thanks for kicking off this thread, it's made for *&%$#! good reading.
As mentioned a couple of times, tents are like a lot gear, each individual has a slightly different feel about a range of things when choosing.
In recent years I've been a weight nazi and probably compromised myself a bit because of it.
But I made a decision a couple of months ago to do the Western Arthurs and decided that a One Planet Gunyah 1V or 2V wouldn't do the job.
I was offered a Hubba Carbon Reflex and decided that wouldn't do it either.
So, I put the Gunyah 2V (1.66kg) up for sale and after a bit of agonising, opted for the Nallo 2 (2.3kg).
So, 640 grams of extra weight, well I can probably shave a bit off elsewhere but I'm feeling a damn side more confident about that Tassie trip and some of the other high country stuff I have planned.
The Nallo will get its baptism in Venezuela in January, so I should've worked it all out by the time late February comes in the Arthurs.

[Jellybean]

Photohiker what Hilleberg one line catalog are you referring to? I went looking to see if it is the same as the around thirty-two page one that came with one of one of my tents but could not find it online. I will have a look at home to see if I still have mine but fear it might have been chucked due an ill advised clean up of paperwork in my unit.

The catalog I have was found on google. Its called "Hilleberg The Tentmaker; The Tent Handbook" 2009 English. 64 pages. It goes through the Hilleberg Principles, History, Design and Development, etc etc. Its very comprehensive and has tips in it that apply to most hiking tents as well as specific information about all the tents in the range. I was surprised to see that your favourite tent supplier also makes and supplies lightweight tarps! LOL I think you should write them a short missive so that they see the error of their ways. haha.

Anyway, not a word in it about the fireproof-ness or otherwise of their tents, nor recommendations for or against cooking inside the tent.

Hmm, that would be the on-line product catalogue referred to under Products on the home page of the Hilleberg website (http://www.hilleberg.com/Home.htm) I’m guessing! Hard to miss even if you're not looking for it!?

I couldn’t find anything on fire retardant materials or the specific design of Hilleberg tents to allow cooking in tents either … just the normal warnings about precautions to take if you choose to do so and comments about cooking outside your tent. Hmm, strange, given the potentially litigious nature of such a claim I find it unusual that a manufacturer would make that claim on one catalogue and not on others, unless …..

[Ent]

Please see important correction to the post on fire-rating of Hilleberg tents on the approriate post. The comments are in direct contradiction to the warning label on the tent and have been corrected.

As for integrity comments Geoskid my delay is due to the fact I have just got home, torn the place to pieces and found the catalogue, 2009, dragged out one of the tents hunted for any labelling. Dodo wireless then failed so I am setting at the front door of a friends place with laptop under a light sprinkling of rain typing the correction on a dodgey wireless connection. Ghee! I hope other are so dedicated to the pursuit of integrity and stating things.

Cheers

[Ent]

Please see important correction to the post on fire-rating of Hilleberg tents on the approriate post. The comments are in direct contradiction to the warning label on the tent and have been corrected.

As for integrity comments Geoskid my delay is due to the fact I have just got home, torn the place to pieces and found the catalogue, 2009, dragged out one of the tents hunted for any labelling. Dodo wireless then failed so I am setting at the front door of a friends place with laptop under a light sprinkling of rain typing the correction on a dodgey wireless connection. Ghee! I hope other are so dedicated to the pursuit of integrity and stating things.

Cheers

Hi Brett - You made the assertion, Photohiker pulled you up on it, and you still have not accounted for it. You can not do this.
I am more than happy to accommodate opinions and belief - this site is based on true information - it is what makes it valuable. Is Hillebergs material fire retardent or not? Stand up Man!

The comments I made were in direct contradiction to the warning label. What more am I to say? I apologised in my correction to the original post. Sorry Mark I do not understand what you want me to say? Hilleberg on the label of their tent warns against cooking in at tent. That is all that matters. I was wrong saying otherwise.

[tasadam]

Gees we do get a bit technical what with denier , waterhead ,DWR coating ,rain ingress.vapour egress,wind shear,snow shed ,footprint or none,taught or not,square or askew,long or short,wide or narrow,tall or not, how heavy, even reference to to the old style A frame
Ahh !! life is perfect we are all different, seem to like similar things have diverse income streams love variety and come together in this forum to discuss things without rancour or even knicker twisting, got to love it
c

Hi Corvus
I've really been hanging out for your opinion on the Nallo in comparison to the Snowcave.
From the original post,

The Snow Cave is well over 3kg and quite old. It is a roomy and bombproof design. Two vestibules and with 3 hoops and ridge pole - bring on your worst mother nature! I suspect with modern materials this tent could get under 3kg, and as such would be a great heavy weather tent.

Surprised it hasn't been recreated by now. Thought I'd ask you, as you are also familiar with the Snowcave.
I think the Nallo comes close, one vestibule instead of 2 but I'm used to that and the one vestibule is big enough that I don't need 2. I like the way the inner easily pulls back to make a bigger vestibule for cooking, not fiddling with velcro straps on the Snowcave. And the colour coded poles putting the Nallo up makes it those few seconds quicker, also the offset opening where the poles slide in so the opening can be easily found.
Quick to put up anyhow, 2 pegs at the back, slide the poles in & hook into cups, pull tight from the front & peg it down, now it's ready to get in while the ropes are done and the pole straps are tightened on the side.

This is a great write up and I bet it gets a lot of hits worldwide when the Google bots get their teeth into it. Wish I was there to view the comparisons myself, being familiar with 2 of them.

[north-north-west]

The Hilleberg comes in Red too, then it would look better!

It does. A bit too red, maybe, but better than another boring old green tent. Easier to see when returning from that side trip that took a little longer than you'd expected . . .

[corvus]

G'day Tasadam,
I thought the Fairydown Snow Cave would have been a blast from the past for you (hey!! me also) however in all honesty I could not judge one against the other owing to the age difference in materials in use today ,design wise the Snow Cave is I believe superior especially when compared to the *&%$#! end of the Nallo, its interior length is better especially with the "vertical ends", twin vestibules free standing ability and as a two person shelter regardless of its weight would be my shelter of choice when walking with a share mate in all weathers
Yes this design would be a winner in modern fabrics I believe just a pity Cam lost the pattern/details when Mac Pac took over Fairydown
c
oops did I just do what I said I could not

[north-north-west]

Yeah, but.
It's pink. I'm sorry, but, really. A pink tent?

[flyfisher]

I noticed a correction in the 1.55 post by Ent re. the fire rating of Hilleberg tents and in several subsequent posts.

The retraction of earlier assertions I would say is full and complete as Ent has acknowledged that he was mistaken in the earlier post.

I would not expect any further negative comments regarding this.

FF

[Maelgwn]

Please see important correction to the post on fire-rating of Hilleberg tents on the approriate post. The comments are in direct contradiction to the warning label on the tent and have been corrected.

As for integrity comments Geoskid my delay is due to the fact I have just got home, torn the place to pieces and found the catalogue, 2009, dragged out one of the tents hunted for any labelling. Dodo wireless then failed so I am setting at the front door of a friends place with laptop under a light sprinkling of rain typing the correction on a dodgey wireless connection. Ghee! I hope other are so dedicated to the pursuit of integrity and stating things.

Cheers

Haha ... Love the commitment Now why couldn't you just knock on the door and your "friend" would let you in

There are a couple of Akto posts etc with the same claim. Are you going to correct these also?

[flyfisher]

[photohiker]

The comments I made were in direct contradiction to the warning label. What more am I to say?

That's fair enough. Correction is fine by me. I gave the subject a good search and couldn't find a reference. I'd be surprised to hear a tent manufacturer making the recommendation in any case as there is just too much that might go wrong with the inevitable legal issues. Clearly some hikers occasionally cook in a closed tent regardless and that's their prerogative. Personally, I've cooked in the well secured entrance to an open vestibule (well, boiled water anyway) and that is about as close as I'd like.

On with the tents!

[corvus]

Yeah, but.
It's pink. I'm sorry, but, really. A pink tent?

You colour blind it is Purple and Green
c

[ILUVSWTAS]

We have a fellow walker who has a pink shirt, pink fluffy pants... he may like the pink tent???

I know what Brett (sorry Ent) is saying about the fire warning. In my Akto there is a label saying please keep fire away, while this tent is made from fabrics 6 times stronger than it's nearest rival to prevent wind tear, it makes it more flammable.

[sthughes]

Cooking in your tent

You can cook in the vestibule if you are careful and the weather prevents you from doing this outside. However, an open flame inside your tent calls for caution, and you ought to be attentive all the time, particularly during the priming of a pressure stove! But with the appropriate care there is no reason to worry about damaging the tent. Should you want to sit inside it might be a good idea to detach the front part of the inner to get more head room. In the GT versions of our tents, you always have full height in the vestibule.

Appropriate ventilation is a must when using a stove in your tent. Therefore, there are well-sized vents in all models. There might be some condensation on the inside of the fabric all the same. Simply wipe this off with a cloth.

Weather permitting, you could sit inside your tent and place your stove in front of it. This way you minimize condensation.

From the Hilleberg European web site. http://www.hilleberg.se/default-e.HTM

Maybe not claiming fire resistance, but Ent is at least partly right in that Hilleberg do support the use of fuel stoves in their tents. Not that it matters now he has apologised and retracted what he said.

[ILUVSWTAS]

[EDIT: I can't believe people paid $600 for a $500 tent. Ah ha. I'll know where to come to sell my overpriced grey imports now.]

I know. I cant wait til they come back in stock for $449. Im gonna sell some to the uneducated folk here myself

[Son of a Beach]

Please note that this topic had been heading in several different directions, so several posts have been split off to the following new topics:
Peak Braggers
Tent Burn Off

There have also been several posts in this topic which have been getting a little on the personal attack side, and which have been removed.

Please let me know if I've missed any that fit into any of the above categories.

[Onestepmore]

Great comparison thread. Deserves a bump

[Mountain Rocket]

Great comparison thread. Deserves a bump

Indeed. I remember finding it ages ago and benefiting from the read.
Interesting that I did not find it when researching Nallo's the other week. No matter.

If anyone in Hobart wants to do a similar experiment I have a red Nallo 2 and a Scarp 1 with crossing poles.
Could be fun?

[Onestepmore]

Wouldn't Nallo 2 and Scarp 2 be a better comparison? That'll probably be my debate in a year's time when I'd like to do a longer walk in Tassie than what we have time for this Xmas.

[Mountain Rocket]

Yeah that would make the most sense, but you would still get to appreciate the two designs.
As an aside, 80% of the time that I have used my Scarp 1 I have had two people in it. Should have opted for the Scarp 2, but such is life