What safety gear do you carry?

[scubabob]

I was just wondering what safety gear people carry - or deem neccessary for day walks, particularly if they walk alone.

I do ocassionally do stuff on my own - hike, scuba dive, four wheel drive; but i have safety parameters in place. There are maps at home and someone always knows which area i am in. When i dive alone, i call Jude (wife) before i go in and when i get out. If the "I'm out of the water" call doesnt arrive within 2 hours, she knows what to do. Same when i hike or "go bush in the Landie"

That aside, what do you take with you when you go hiking as safety equipment in case something goes wrong? I havent been hiking long and don't belong to any clubs but i have brought a lot of ideas and training over from my diving and my Army days. When i hike, as i am training, i am carrying my full Black Wolf "Bugaboo' backpack complete with sleeping bag, tent, stove, the whole kit and kaboodle so if it all goes wrong, i can at least keep dry and warm. Aside from a compact first aid kit, i also have a signalling mirror, whistle and high intensity strobe (see pic) which i use for night diving (so my buddy knows where i am) and apparently can be seen over still water for a 4 km radius,( although i have no desire to prove or disprove this). i feel this would be quite handy should i be lost at night. i also carry two torches (one self powering, the wind up type)

i also have a "survival kit" in my daypack which has waterproof matches, a few metres of string, a copy of morse code, international ground signals and a few other bits and pieces.

As i have no desire to be on the 6 o'clock news, like diving, the plan is to go down, come up and dive another day. Same with hiking. Does anyone else carry similar items?

[johnw]

I was just wondering what safety gear people carry - or deem neccessary for day walks, particularly if they walk alone.

Does anyone else carry similar items?

Yes to both. Occasionally I do solo day trips if I'm the only one available. This gear is taken on all walks and is additional to usual warmwear, wet weather gear, first aid kit/medical supplies etc:

Relevant topo map/s (even in areas I know well)
Compass
GPS and fully charged batteries
Mobile phone (fully charged). Mine also has a small LED torch which could be handy as a backup.
Very small UHF radio/3 AAA batteries (which are also backups for my headtorch)
Foil space blanket
6'x4' extremely lightweight plastic tarp (can be used to improvise shelter)
Headtorch and batteries
Whistle
Waterproof matches
15m rope (4mm climbing accessory cord)
Quick dry towel
Binoculars (small, cheap, lighweight ones)
Iodine tablets
Some extra food

I think that's it. The same gear is transferred to my rucksack for overnight or longer walks. How useful any of these things might be can be debated, but I feel more comfortable with them than without. Fortunately never had to test any of them in other than routine circumstances.

[sthughes]

Yep I carry similar to johnw:
- First aid kit - too big lots of stuff but thats another topic.
- fleece, beanie, rain coat on any walk + waterproof trousers when I'm going a fair way from civilization + p/fleace gloves & scarfe (doubles as balaclava) in highland areas.
- 1:100,000 topo maps - good enough and not as pricey/bulky as 1:25,000's.
- Compass (and I know how to use it unlike some people I have known to carry them!)
- GPS and fully charged batteries (and spares)
- Mobile phone (fully charged)
- Foil space blanket (part of my first aid kit)
- Headtorch and spare batteries (had to use this more than once) I know the spare batteries are overkill for a led torch! Once apon a time I carried my mini-maglite as well but I caught the ultralight bug
- Whistle
- Matches in waterproof container
- 10m cord (used this a couple of times)
- Quick dry towel (only on overnight winter walks - not really for safety but comfort)
- Binoculars (small, cheap, lighweight ones) - once again more for fun than survival.
- Some extra food - bag of m&m's on day walks and a single serve freeze dried meal on multi days (had to eat it for breakfast at Lady Lake cause I left out my oats!)
- Pocket knife
- And my camera to record my last will and testament

That's pretty much my gear list for a typical day walk (excluding lunch and what I wear).
I rarely walk alone unless it's either a very short walk, a busy area or somewhere with mobile coverage. But when I go it alone nothing changes - I like to think I can look after myself without help (and be of some help to others less prepared) if the Pringles fall off the shelf.
The mirror is a good idea - especially in the age of helicopter rescues - I somehow doubt they will hear my whistle up there!

[scubabob]

glad to know im not the only one woh carries lots of stuff. I carry a lot of what you guys mention but i didnt want to list it all.
The mirror i have is a Coleman acrylic one available very cheaply and i have had one in my dive gear for about 4 years and has been wet and dry more times than i can count and is still in good nic. I carry my old Army hutchi for emergency shelter - heavier than a tarp but pretty tough.

thanks for the input

[johnw]

Forgot a couple of items:

Small multi-tool (Leatherman Micra)
Small survival card almost identical to this one http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Multipurpose-Pocket-Emergency-Survival-Card-Tools_W0QQitemZ150289287021QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20080831?IMSfp=TL080831133r17733

Re mirror. It's something I've thought about and may add, but have been using the idea that a folded up space blanket could be used for signalling as well.

Also take my camera but hadn't really considered it a safety item. However camera flash could be used to attract attention (and I think has been used in some rescue situations).

Yep, any solo walks are in relatively "safe" areas. Not too many dangers and usually visited by other walkers. Generally places I'm already familiar with. Hmm, I'd like a dollar for every time I've been asked for directions out in the bush by confused-looking people (often without a map). I wonder what research/planning do they do before deciding to go wandering around?

1:100,000 topo maps - good enough and not as pricey/bulky as 1:25,000's

My collection of 1:25,000s for Sydney region and some other NSW areas takes up an entire row of a bookshelf. I shudder to think of the cost over the years . My Tasmanian map collection is more modest, mainly the park-specific ones; Cradle Mtn Day Walks, Mt Field, Walls Of Jerusalem, Freycinet etc. My preference is for 1:25,000 but I found the Cradle Mtn/Lake St Clair 1:100,000 fine for the OT (although I think it misses out some of the Pine Valley/Labyrinth area). I picked up the Cathedral 1:25,000 on last visit which seems good value as it covers a number of different walk options in that area. The four 1:250,000 maps that cover all of Tasmania are also useful for planning, up to a point.

[bibtracker]

Interesting discussion in that there has been no mention of an EPIRB or PLB yet.
The latest Great Walks magazine profiles two, but the prices are a bit off-putting (high 500-dollar range).
However, as I ponder retirement and some good long walks, mainly alone, in WA, Victoria and Tassie, I'm starting to think it might be a good investment.
(Mind you, the mean side of me worries about such an outlay on some gear you hope you never have to use!)
Some relevant sites:

http://www.nextdestination.com.au (click on Kannand logo)

http://www.kti.com.au

http://www.gme.net.au

Cheers, Tony

[sthughes]

Yeah I think EPIRB's (or whaterver they are called these days) are great as well. But like you say they are pretty expensive for something you never want to (and probably never will) use - thats why I don't have one. But then so are air bags in cars are pricey too I guess.

[corvus]

I will need to replace my perfectly good unused (thankfully) well borrowed EPIRB (PLB)come Jan/Feb or I will be grounded or worse by Mrs corvus We have been discussing a bulk purchase on the Forum and the consensus seems to be go for the one with GPS locator but we will talk closer to the time no doubt so keep looking.

[bibtracker]

Hey, bulk purchase might be a very good idea. Word "discount" pops into my mind. And I know I'm being silly about the price. How much is my mangy hide worth?
Further to earlier post, I had a quick reply from the KTI people, and can't imagine they would mind me posting it here: (If brand-name stuff is a no-no, please remove, but I think this is useful information on a vital subject).

Reply begins: Thank you for your enquiry regarding the KTI Mini-Sat / KTI Mini-Sat-G Personal Locator Beacon.
These products are currently in the COSPAS-SARSAT approval process which must be completed before they can be sold. This process is expected to be completed within two to three months. We will add your details to our list of those to contact when the product becomes available.

We will be releasing the Mini-Sat at a RRP of $499 and the Mini-Sat-G at the RRP of $649. These prices include GST.

The Mini-Sat and Mini-Sat-G products are truly pocket size, measuring just 125mm x 84mm x 35mm at the extremes (265 cm3) and weighing just 220 grams (Mini-Sat) or 240g (Mini-Sat-G).

The Mini-Sat and Mini-Sat-G products are equipped with a high intensity strobe light for long distance visibility at night. The aerial features a swivel mechanism allowing it to be set vertical whether the beacon is in a life vest pocket or lying flat on the ground.

The Mini-Sat-G is equipped with the latest technology GPS engine enabling super-fast position acquisition and the ability to report position through geostationary satellites. The helical gps aerial provides maximum signal sensitivity and is highly resistant to shadowing, masking and alignment problems.

The Mini-Sat and Mini-Sat-G products are powered by long life lithium batteries which provide more than 24 hours continuous transmission, ten years between battery changes and freedom from current passenger aircraft transport regulations.

The Mini-Sat and Mini-Sat-G PLBs are self-buoyant, waterproof and resistant to immersion to more than 3 metres. Our product warranty against faulty materials and workmanship is for a period of ten years from date of purchase.

The Mini-Sat and Mini-Sat-G PLBs are in the process of certification to the applicable requirements of COSPAS-SARSAT C/S T.001, AS/NZS4280 and CAR252A.

Cheers, Tony

[bibtracker]

Today's final rant, promise.

Re-reading last post, I realise that PLBs are subject to GST. Why?

Surely if anything should be exempt from this invidious impost, a safety device should be. A PLB could save tens of thousands of dollars in S&R expense. I feel a series of letters to Canberra coming on. Yes, I know they'll be a waste of time, but you never know. Maybe Bob Brown and the Greens might be interested?

Cheers, Tony

[corvus]

G'day bibtracker,
Dont hold your breath re GST reduction on PLB or EPIRB caus if you are rich enough to go Flying ,Boating or dare I say Bushwalking then you can pay the TAX (it is only about the price of a moderate Single Malt)so do the right thing and dont complain

[norts]

I carry one of the new PLBs, it doesn't have the GPS. As for safety gear 3/4 of my pack could be classed as safety gear, rain coat, warm clothes, first aid kit etc. Isn't a sleeping bag a safety item in the winter? You could probably go through most things in a pack and classify them as a safety item.I also carry a 240 litre garbage bag( we put someone in it keep wind and rain off them while we warmed them up).It was on the Western Arthurs. Bag is also handy if you every want to leave you pack outside the vestibule.
The only things that I carry that are purely comfortwould be pillow, waterproof socks and some food. I could justify nearly everything else as being needed to keep me safe(warm and dry is safe)

Roger

[Tony]

For day walking It depends on what season and where I am walking

Usual summer kit ( I have been caught in wet weather in summer more than any other season, usually thunder storms, I have also been snowed on and (horizontal) hailed on in summer)
WP jacket
Thermal top
Beanie
Gloves
First aid kit
WP/Wind proof matches
Fire starters
Dry bag
Mobile phone
Space blanket
newly acquired (1 week ago) PLB GPS equipped GME (went halves with my walking partner as we both have had a health scare in the last year, some peace of mind for wives)

Winter
same as above plus
Polar fleece jacket
2 extra thermal tops
WP pants

For other seasons a mix of both, again depends where we are going.

Tony

[thelummox]

If you are thinking about PLB's have a look at the ACR range of products particularly the ResQFix model which is the smallest in the range. The ResQFix is smaller than the AquaFix model although even that one is fairly small and is full floating(358 grams from memory). The ResQFix is waterproof as well but has a neoprene "lifejacket" cover for martime use and is smaller and lighter. GME also manufacture excellent PLB's in addition to their marine range of EPIRB's and also include GPS and non GPS models in their range (MT410/MT410G). Prices are generally similar between both manufacturers. The main difference is that marine versions (EPIRB's) must float fully upright and operate for a minimum 48 hours whereas PLB's only need operate for a min. 24 hours. These figures should be taken with a grain of salt as they are calculated at a nominal temperature of -20 or thereabouts, so operation at less severe conditions will extend battery life.

For the price difference of $150 to $200 I would strongly urge anyone considering buying a new 406 Mhz beacon to buy a GPS equipped model. The main difference is that non GPS equipped units have an stated detection accuracy of 5km whereas GPS equipped PLB's/EPIRB's are less than 100 metres. Most GPS units are accurate to less than 20 metres so the implication is that if you are in such deep trouble you have to activate your PLB help will reach you significantly faster. This becomes particularly critical for solo travellers who may be injured but are able to reach their PLB.

PLB's do not satisfy maritime requirements where an EPIRB must be carried, however PLB's are a mandatory requirement for all crew in YA approved offshore races, so that gives you some idea of the fact they can operate in the worst conditions. For the sake of a few extra $$$$ if you are going to shell out for a PLB go the extra distance and buy a GPS equipped model. And before anyone asks, no I don't sell or distribute them! For those unfamiliar with the new 406Mhz system, go to the AMSA website for more information. http://beacons.amsa.gov.au

The new beacons must be registered on line but you can update your information/destination/trip details before every trip you undertake, so that in the event of an activation the emergency services will have far greater knowledge of your intentions, and this can also be used to confirm that the activation is not accidental. I saw a bloke at the marine centre the other day buy the cheapest one he could and was grumbling because he had to buy that! My position is that if I'm hanging onto my upturned hull, or lying somewhere with a broken leg, I don't want to wait while they narrow the search down from 25 square kilometres to 1 square kilometre for the sake of $150! For land use this can be minimised if using a non GPS model by pre registering trip intentions before you go.

[MJD]

I have always resisted the thought of carrying a PLB/EPIRB until a suitable one comes out with a GPS locator. Has this happened? Has anyone got or used one of the new SPOT messengers?

http://www.findmespot.com/Home.aspx

They are available in Australia. GPSOZ in Sydney has some apparently. You need to buy the unit and at least one annual subscription service plus have an internet connection for setting up your messages and tracking progress if you choose that optional extra service.

These look like a pretty good start.

[Tony]

I have always resisted the thought of carrying a PLB/EPIRB until a suitable one comes out with a GPS locator. Has this happened? Has anyone got or used one of the new SPOT messengers?

http://www.findmespot.com/Home.aspx

They are available in Australia. GPSOZ in Sydney has some apparently. You need to buy the unit and at least one annual subscription service plus have an internet connection for setting up your messages and tracking progress if you choose that optional extra service.

These look like a pretty good start.

Backpackinglight.com did a review of the Spot Personal Tracker system including in Australian conditions and it was not rated very high, it apparently relies the Globalstar satellite network. The conclusions of the review said that the Spot Personal Tracker system needed some more development work before it would have been considered to be reliable in all conditions.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... acker.html

Tony

[Robbo]

I have to agree, Tony.

I think I mentioned this on another list, but the Globalstar satellite system is very unreliable in the more remote areas of Australia, as is virtually useless in the best walking spots in Tasmania. You would be as likely to get 3G coverage with a rural phone from Telstra as you would from this satellite technology.

Bottom line is, I guess, how valuable are you to your family? Maybe for some of us PLB's are a luxury item , but it is hardly a large investment in the whole scheme of things?

Tony Robinson

[Tony]

Hi Robbo,

I have to agree, Tony.

I think I mentioned this on another list, but the Globalstar satellite system is very unreliable in the more remote areas of Australia, as is virtually useless in the best walking spots in Tasmania. You would be as likely to get 3G coverage with a rural phone from Telstra as you would from this satellite technology.

Bottom line is, I guess, how valuable are you to your family? Maybe for some of us PLB's are a luxury item , but it is hardly a large investment in the whole scheme of things?

Tony Robinson

thanks for that, Roger Caffin had problems with the Spot system in the Blue Mountains on top of hills.

The other thing with the Spot Personal tracker is that it requires a service fee to work.

For those who are interested in getting a GME MT410G PLB the specifications claim that the MT410G weight is 250g, I just weighed my MT410G.
on some accurate scientific scales and measured 245.8g without protective bag and 286.7g with bag.

Tony

[Nuts]

..

[corvus]

Nuts I agree with you about dependancy on PLP/EPIRB and them milking us for every penny ,poo... I will have to dump my unused one when the new system goes live just like I had to do with my perfectly good CDMA phone and it really hurts especially me being a canny Scot.
However not replacing my PLB/EPIRB would have a more serious outcome on the home front as Mrs corvus would make me suffer one way or another if I dont(I think she must love me)so I will have a bit of gear that I can only look at do a wee test now and again and lend to my mates when I dont need it (oh!! what a good idea lending fee minimum 1 good bottle of wine thanks Mrs corvus)
Nuts it is sad but many dont have your experience and lots are" more to be pittied than scolded "however if an electronic device saves one life I rest my case and the $600,00 I spend wont feed many unless I do the feeding direct as admin fees would suck up at least 65%.

[MJD]

Tony: thanks for the extra info on SPOT. Just have to wait for version 2, or 3 or....

Robbo:

Bottom line is, I guess, how valuable are you to your family? ...

Tony Robinson

Hmmm. That's an intereesting question. My superannuation advice keeps pointing out that I'm worth considerably more dead than alive. My only hope is to be more useful alive than dead!

[Tony]

Here in the ACT, Namadgi National Park we have a missing walker, last night was her second night spent lost in the bush, it is very cold country, it is not looking good.

It has been twelve months since the disappearance of a trail runner in the same Park different area, his body has never been found.

Both walker/runner started off on good well defined trails.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/lo ... 63884.aspx

I can't help but think what would be the outcome if they had an PLB.

My thoughts go out to the Woman's family, and I hope she is soon found safe and well.

It brings me to think about he Australian walkers recently rescued in NZ after being stranded in heavy snow, they had a PLB and used it.

Tony

[Nuts]

..

[sthughes]

If I was on a solo walk, I wouldn't bother taking a PLB!

Well good for you. I would have thought if you were ever to carry one then doing so when walking solo would be that time.

If you aren't/don't feel safe leaving home without it (or your other half doesn't) then DONT GO!

Why not? Are you saying Corvus should sit at home like a hermit the rest of his life because his wife is concerned for his safety when he's out alone in the wilderness? That would be stupid - why not just carry the PLB - Mrs Corvus is happy, Corvus is out doing what he loves and so what if it never get used!

If you can honestly not see an alternative to get around the items in any first aid kit, or
If you don't have the confidence to know where you are without the GPS- STAY HOME!

Excellent - can you please let us all know how to get around the items in a kit? I'd be happy to leave it all behind if I can improvise everything just as well and just as easily.
A GPS is just handy. I can navigate without it but really it's just so quick to look at a screen that tells you exactly where you are at a glance. Saves having maps out in the wind and rain. Additionally in zero visability conditions I don't understand how you can know exactly where you are, with a GPS its not an issue. And if you don't recognise any landmarks or you've lost your map? Perhaps we should carry a sextant instead?

I like gadgets - so sue me!
Why would anyony "boast" about a first aid or survival kit, it's hardly a status symbol! Perhaps some people like to boast about how awesome they are and why they don't need a kit.
Like Corvus said - some of us like to "Be Prepared" and others are happy to die in the bush if it all goes bad. I'm confident it won't all go bad, I know statistically it's unlikley to go bad and even if it does I can probably survive without half my gear anyway. But I am a realist and know that sometimes the worst does happen, even to the best people with the best plans. Given that I don't think I'm the best bushwalker who ever lived and understand that I am not invincible I think, for me, carrying a few extra grams to make me happy, comfortable and just maybe keep me alive under highly unlikely circumstances is well worth it.

[Nuts]

[Penguin]

I forgot the fork and spoon on one eight day walk - does having trouble eating constitute forgotten safety gear?

I think corvus is right. Part of what I carry is to ease the minds of those I leave behind. I have not carried an EPRIB. I only use a GPS sparingly (I carry a little Geko). But I know my partner worries when I head off on extended walks. I know where I am and that I am well, but she has no idea till I come back and regale her with stories. It is reassuring for her to know that I have some basic survival gear. I am not prepared for nuclear holocaust. But I am prepared for an extended stay in blizzard conditions with a mate with a broken leg in the middle of summer. I think that is only reasonable in the highlands...

What do I carry? What is below but I carry 10 meters of guy rope - this has been used for everything from guy rope to pack hauling. I carry a small one AAA battery AM/FM radio for urgent AFL scores and if the weather is changing dramatically. I do not carry the binoculars. After a trip eighteen months ago where a helicopter looking for us could not see us on an open ridge, I am seriously thinking of taking 15 meters or so of bright coloured 10cm tape as a marker. I have used the whistle when I became separated from my two walking companions; it works!

I will probably get one of the newer EPIRB's, particularly if we go for a group buy. Will it change where I go? NO. Will it change how I walk? NO. Will it act as a reassurance to those at home? YES. To me that is important.

Relevant topo map/s (even in areas I know well)
Compass
GPS and fully charged batteries
Mobile phone (fully charged). Mine also has a small LED torch which could be handy as a backup.
Very small UHF radio/3 AAA batteries (which are also backups for my headtorch)
Foil space blanket
6'x4' extremely lightweight plastic tarp (can be used to improvise shelter)
Headtorch and batteries
Whistle
Waterproof matches
15m rope (4mm climbing accessory cord)
Quick dry towel
Binoculars (small, cheap, lighweight ones)
Iodine tablets
Some extra food

[corvus]

Me thinks Nuts is playing Devils Advocate (like I do at times )if not he aint the eating sort

[thelummox]

Solo walkers confident in their own abilities, competent and who can navigate don't really need a PLB or safety gear, is that the argument ?
Counter argument, two words, Wade Butler.

[Nuts]

..



P

[corvus]

Hey Nuts ,
You lost me! but as an individual red blooded Tassi male you are entitled to your opinion for what it is worth(albeit flawed )and I will carry an Epirb/Plb on Solo walks and dare I say even on serious off track group walks.
You may be very familiar with some areas but I suspect if you were taken out of your comfort zone and in total clag a GPS would be welcome,Scouting trained I can navigate provided I can see the Sun/Stars if not I am stuffed so where do you get you superior ability from,please share.