Torn between two sleeping bags...

[Dale]

Hi Everyone

I'm on the hunt to replace my old faithful Fairydown Winter bag with a lighter and warmer one.

I've narrowed the selection to the Western Mountaineering Apache or Versalite, I considered the Ultralite however for some extra bucks I get a much warmer bag. I have a Summerlite which I feel comfortable to take down to the low minuses. The key difference between the Apache and Versalite is the Microfibre fabric on the Apache, the Versalite is the same fabric as the Summerlite.

I was happy with the Summerlite around condensation on its first outing - there was quite a bit across the bag from a heavy rainstorm and Silnylon misting and it didn't seem to affect its performance.

The Versalite and Apache are the same total weight with extra fill in the Versalite and the heavier fabric in the Apache. Price difference is negligable.

I'd be keen to hear from anyone who can comment on the fabric difference and whether there is a compelling reason to go for the microfibre ? For cold temps I'd be using my Nallo2 right now. In the never ending quest for perfect gear options I may pick up a lighter one person 4 season tent such as a Scarp 1 in the future.

Cheers

Dale.

[tele-whippet]

I've just acquired a WM Versalite but haven't used it yet.
I've bought it as a light weight alternative to my old Mont Mainrange for ski touring.
I'll let you know my thoughts when I test it.
I got it from Bentgate Mountaineering who posted it direct.

[photohiker]

Hi.

I can't really comment on the bags, except to say that I have generally found my WM Ultralite toasty.

Did you know that both these bags are in the wiki? Wiki:Sleeping Bag Selection

[blacksheep]

Macpac express 400 or express 600? http://www.macpac.com.au/shop/en_au/gea ... s-601.html
600 weighs slightly more than WM bag as it has 40gms extra down, but also has a full draught collar and a long length zip. It also comes in a seam-tape/roll top vacuum sac as a bit of a bonus. We state 800FP but never had a test yet come in under 825fp.
And I can't see any reference to WM citing temp ratings according to EU standard- do you know if they relate to comfort or limit of comfort?
Just used the express 400 on an MTB ride along the Heaphy track last weekend- so small and thank goodness for the vaccum sack- it poured every day.. and the long zip was great for the 2nd night when we stayed in a hut with a pot belly stove- toasty in there!

[ninjapuppet]

I can certainly understand why blacksheep always seems to go on bike rides. I went with Helibike in NZ and was amazed at the tracks theyv'e got over there.

Regarding Apache vs versalite, I'd go the apache for your second winter bag. Ive slept in both and found the moisture from my breath really started collecting in the versalite whereas the apache seemed abit more resistant.

If you get it from hermits hut, they can rip the bag open and overfill it for you too! then it can be just as warm as the versalite but with the water resistance... sweet.

[photohiker]

I can't see any reference to WM citing temp ratings according to EU standard- do you know if they relate to comfort or limit of comfort?

Hi Cam,

As far as I am aware, WM hasn't done EU standard testing, but I haven't looked recently. In the wiki, I've put the non-EU tested manufacturer ratings in the 'Low' column as I think that's the closest (unscientific) fit of claims vs reality.

Are the Express bags available in Aus?, if so, I'll add them to the wiki.

[Dale]

Thanks for the responses.

I've just acquired a WM Versalite but haven't used it yet.
I've bought it as a light weight alternative to my old Mont Mainrange for ski touring.
I'll let you know my thoughts when I test it.
I got it from Bentgate Mountaineering who posted it direct.

Good luck with the Versalite Tele-whippet and thanks for the heads - up on Bentgate Mountaineering. There seems to be no end to the number of US online camping sites... always good to know more that will ship WM directly to Oz Look forward to hearing how you fare with the Versalite.

Photohiker - Thanks for reminder on the sleeping bag Wiki - remember checking that out some time ago - it's a good resource.

Macpac express 400 or express 600? http://www.macpac.com.au/shop/en_au/gea ... s-601.html
600 weighs slightly more than WM bag as it has 40gms extra down, but also has a full draught collar and a long length zip. It also comes in a seam-tape/roll top vacuum sac as a bit of a bonus. We state 800FP but never had a test yet come in under 825fp.
And I can't see any reference to WM citing temp ratings according to EU standard- do you know if they relate to comfort or limit of comfort?

Blacksheep, thanks for the suggestion - I am a fan of Macpac gear. Almost all of my hiking clothes are purchased at your stores. I have to say that the service I get from the Macpac Kent St store is excellent - the staff know their stuff and are easy to deal with. However I doubt that I'll be moved easily from my WM loyalty. I only own one of their products are are suitably impressed. It did exactly what it said on the packet. I Iike the specs of the Express line and the sale price is competitve with comparable bags purchased overseas. Of course compared to what it would cost to buy the WM bag from an Australian distributor you'd be coming in at about half the price It looks like the 400 Express would compete with the WM Ultralite and the 600 with the Versalite or Badger.

I also believe the WM ratings are similar to 'limit of comfort', apprently WM don't EN test their bags, which doesn't seem to affect the brand: their fans are legion.

Regarding Apache vs versalite, I'd go the apache for your second winter bag. Ive slept in both and found the moisture from my breath really started collecting in the versalite whereas the apache seemed abit more resistant.If you get it from hermits hut, they can rip the bag open and overfill it for you too! then it can be just as warm as the versalite but with the water resistance... sweet.

Ninjapuppet - exactly the advice I was looking for. I don't want to role the dice at low temps with my down bag so I'll opt for the Apache in case of condensation. I'm leaning towards buying from Moontrail as the Apache gets me 51 points... with the few that I have on my account I can score a Whisperlite for nix (don't own a low temp stove).

Thanks for your help everyone !

[flyinglion2000]

Hi Dale

Have you made your choice for a new sleeping bag yet?

I am searching for a new bag too and have eyed off exactly what you listed plus the Ultralite. Spoiled with too many great choices!

I notice on the WM website that the Apache is available in a Goretex shell as well. Is that what you were considering or the standard shell?

I am paranoid about down sleeping bags and water/moisture. Does anyone think I am being way too pessimistic about standard Nylon shells?

ON a side note Mountain Designs are having a winter sale and their Cornice and Standhart bags are almost half price - anybody had any experience with this gear?

cheers

[Dale]

Hi Flyinglion

I have gone with the WM Apache microfiber. I've ordered the small bag which is a special order from WM so has taken a few weeks. Hope to take delivery within the fortnight and I'll give it a whirl in some cold temps. I share your paranoia with condensation and the cold, but believe the microfiber fabric is sufficient. From what I've researched the gore windstopper option is for snow cave camping and more extreme conditions. Even my Summerlite with just a DWR treated light shell has done a great job at resisting moisture in a single wall tent in low temps and heavy rain falls so I expect the microfiber will do the trick...

This BPL thread might help

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... d_id=28399

I did consider the Ultralite but figured for the extra cash I'd get a warmer bag and a shell to fit my needs with the Apache.

Never used a MD sleeping bag so can't help on that one - the prices do look good. Macpac is suppose to be kicking off their winter sale shortly so you might want to check that out as well if you're looking at a local supplier.

Good luck with the decision making !

Cheers

Dale.

[kevin8]

Hi Dale,

I wonder if you could give some feedback on your Apache MF now that you've had it for a while. I'm debating between a Versalite and the Apache. I'm interested in your comments on the following aspects of its performance:
1) does the bag leak feather?
2) water resistance?
3) girth size, is it comfortable to move around? Apache (59 inch girth) is about 3 inches smaller than the Versalite; I am male 5'8 140
4) warmth?

Thanks! Other comments welcome too!

Kevin

[Snowzone]

Hi Dale,

I wonder if you could give some feedback on your Apache MF now that you've had it for a while. I'm debating between a Versalite and the Apache. I'm interested in your comments on the following aspects of its performance:
1) does the bag leak feather?
2) water resistance?
3) girth size, is it comfortable to move around? Apache (59 inch girth) is about 3 inches smaller than the Versalite; I am male 5'8 140
4) warmth?

Thanks! Other comments welcome too!

Kevin

Hi Kevin, I got the Versalite from Moontrail in January. Spent 2 weeks in Tassie with it at the start of March with some wet and a couple of really cold nights at shelf camp. I'm very happy with it.
In answer to your questions;
1) No have not noticed any feathers remaining in my tent or on me.
2) Had no problems but from feel of shell I would imagine it would soak water in fairly quickly if given contact with a wet surface.
3) I have heaps of room in the versalite. (I'm female with wider hips)
4) I sleep cold and went into this bag from a one planet -15 rated bag so I was concerned about warmth. But it is toasty warm and I have ended up having the full zip undone on more than one night. In my opinion excellent warmth for weight ratio.

cheers, Vicki

[Dale]

Hi Kevin - my Apache hasn't actually had that many outings, but I'll tell you what I found so far... No huge leaking of feathers, there's the odd stray but I've had this with every down bag I've owned. Only had the bag to about -2 Celsius so haven't really tested its limits. As far as condensation goes I've had more on my Summerlite than Apache and given the Apache fabric is suppose to cope better with condensation that I'm confident it will be fine. I'm 5'2" so the wrong person to ask about roominess ! So far so good with the bag but like I said it hasn't been put through its paces yet. Hoping to remedy this with some snow camping during this Australian winter.

[kevin8]

Thank you both very much, Vicki and Dale! Now it's a tie, one vote for Versalite, one for Apache

[Dale]

I reckon it boils down to this - if you want extra security around condensation go the Apache. Otherwise take the extra warmth from the Versatile. Let us know how you go !